Christ's Coming

[DoubtingThomas]

Watchtower theology teaches that Jesus Christ received Kingdom power when he was enthroned in the heavens in 1914 and Satan was cast down to the vicinity of the earth. For years now this event has been refered to by the WTBTS as the parousia of Christ or Christ coming.

The March 15, 2007 Watchtower cover article is entitled "Christ's Coming - How Does It Affect You?"

Did anyone else besides me notice something very strange about this article?

There is no mention of Christ "parousia" or "coming" as having taken place in heaven in 1914 anywhere in this article. In fact, the article speaks of Christ coming as being a future event on page 3, paragraph 2.

Is there more than one coming of Jesus, and is this the beginning of a new teaching or doctrine for Jehovah's Witnesses?

or ....

Has this always been the teaching (more than one coming) and I just never caught on to that idea?

or ....

Was this article written for consumption by the general public and the writers (GB) no longer want to keep pounding the 1914 drum beat?

I am really confused here, but afraid to ask one of my congregation elders what they think about this, as I am already considered a "trouble-maker" by some for asking too many controversial questions.

So I am posting this question here for consideration. Thanks for any thoughts you might like to share on this.

DT

[Kenneth]

The whole idea is an absurdity. How many times can a person arrive? If you’re heading for a destination once you have arrived, you’ve arrived. How simple is that. Once you have arrived you can’t arrive again, the teaching is more mystifying than the trinity and as we all know the trinity is a falsehood.

[Candace]

Hi DT,

I think the Zone Overseer talk I heard today may shed some light on what the GB is trying to do.

I too, noticed that there was no mention of 1914 in that article. I must've read it 3 or 4 times looking for a reference. It was not there. So, today, Gerrit Lösch's talk on the 6 comings of Jesus Christ has certainly made it MUCH clearer what the GB is trying to do.

[DoubtingThomas]

So let me see if I got this straight ....

Christ FIRST coming was around 2, 000 years ago.

Christ SECOND coming was in 1914.

And he also has a THIRD< FOURTH< FIFTH etc. ..... ?

Well I am sure that the only coming that matters to the GB is the one where Christ came to inspect the Temple and give them their authority as the FDS. The other comings were just incidental. LOL

Well when the next WW III breaks out, that makes WW I look just like a minor skirmish, they will have to re-examine if 1914 was Christ SECOND return or not. The only problem is that by then it will be too late.

DT

[Jeshurun]

I wonder if the Antichrist is on their list of "comings".

It all seems to be getting more absurd by the day.

Kenneth, that was a classic mini-rant and I loved it.

Lou

[stayawake]

The way I always understood it, is like this

The GB said Christ second presence took place at the Kinddom birth in 1914
His coming is on the white horse at Armegeddon.
Their explanation is WAS that the word Presence and Coming
are two different Greek words.

Never the less even if this were true , they have Jesus here in a KIngdom thats not even set up yet, before he even comes.\
Now thats a mystery !

[littleone]

Concerning Christ&#39;s coming, did not he say "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. (Matt 24:36)"? Therefore, are we better than the angels, or the Son Jesus Christ himself? So that we can determine when that day or hour shall be?

Before Jesus ascended to heaven, after his resurection, consider what he said to his disciples:

When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" 7 He said to them: "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction;8 but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth." - Acts 1:6

So really, it does not belong to us to know the "times or seasons" which are in the Father&#39;s (Jehovah) jurisdiction. However, Jesus did tell us something of encouragement:

"But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming." - Matt 24:43

Do we not see that the "house" has been broken into? Do we not see that Satan ("the theif") is doing his will in "the house of faith" right now? This is why we see so much weeping and sighing amongst Jehovah&#39;s people today. This is why many of us are at this site, weeping and sighing over all the detestable things going on amongst Jehovah&#39;s people today. So when did the thief come??? Ahh... its hard to pinpoint the exact time isn&#39;t it? But yet, we see the results of what the thief has done do we not?

Likewise, we should "stay awake", and look at the things going on inside the house rather than looking outside of it. Because Jesus tells us that "On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming."

So we are not given the "day and hour" that he is coming, but we are admonished to "stay awake", because it will happen in a day and hour that we will not think it to be. So lets not point to dates and use reasonings that are not scriptural. The fact remains that we will not know the "day and hour". It is in Jehovah&#39;s jurisdiction.

So what are we given? A sign. Yes, a sign of Christ&#39;s presence. The disciples asked Jesus a three part question concerning this sign: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?"

What we should be interested in right now is the first part of that question: "Tell us, When will these things be" What is the "these things" they are asking about? Well, Jesus mentioned to them before they asked the question about the "stones" of the "temple" being thrown down. Lets consider what he said:

"Departing now, Jesus was on his way from the temple, but his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: "Do YOU not behold all these things? Truly I say to YOU, By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down." - Matt 24: 1,2

He speaks about the "temple" being "thrown down". Immediately, the disciples wanted to know about this "temple". Afterall, the temple was the place where you went to worship Jehovah. What "temple" was he talking about? We agree that the "sign of Christ&#39;s presence" was a future event, and wasn&#39;t necessarily fulfilled back in those days, do we not? Then what "temple" was he talking about? No doubt he was talking about the future fulfillment of the "temple of God" being thrown down. Yes, not a stone would remain upon a stone and not be thrown down.

This temple is the "Temple of God" as spoken of in Ephesians 2:19-22 where it reads:

"Certainly, therefore, YOU are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God, 20 and YOU have been built up upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone. 21 In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together, is growing into a holy temple for Jehovah. 22 In union with him YOU, too, are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit"

Jesus himself was thrown down in death so that we all may be able to live through his ransom sacrifice that was given in our behalf. Those of Christ&#39;s brothers also are baptised into the "baptism of Christ&#39;s death". Yes, they were also to be rejected as he was.

The house has been broken into! The theif has broken in! May we all stay awake, and in some cases may we "wake up!" and take courage that these things spoken about by Jesus Christ have become manifest.

[Theopompus]

[quote name=&#39;littleone&#39; date=&#39;Jun 20 2007, 09:29 AM&#39; post=&#39;5959&#39;

littleone, were you ever in the Society writing dept. Your style seems familiar.
Just wondering. Your comment on apostate really helped my understanding of a subject i use to avoid.
Love your comments
Theopompus

[littleone]

[quote]Hi Theopompus,

No, I was never in the Society writing dept, nor have I ever toured the bethel buildings or visited any of the bethel headquarters in any country. I never considered my writing style to be very good to tell you the truth. Being a highschool dropout, my mastery of the english language is lacking at times.

I am glad that you&#39;re able to read and get the sense of the things that I am trying to relay. The "printed" word proves to be a challenge for me, as I want to convey my thoughts as clear as possible. I know that sometimes this is not always the case, so if anyone is ever confused by some of the things that I write, I do not mind if anyone asks for a clarification. :)

I am also glad that you enjoyed my post on the topic of "apostate". It is very important for people to realize that "apostasy" is an act against Jehovah or his Son Jesus Christ, not necessarily an act of standing against Jehovah&#39;s house. Because if that were the case, then all the prophets and even our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would by necessity have to be "labeled" as "apostates".

With Love,

littleone

[Shibboleth]

Because if that were the case, then all the prophets and even our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would by necessity have to be "labeled" as "apostates".

With Love,

littleone[/b]


Well Jesus was labeled a blasphemer against God by the religious leaders in his day. That pretty much means an apostate in so many words since Jesus went against the "norm" concerning the teachings. Again this would be a case of imperfect men who let pride and prejudice get into their thought patterns much like what Satan did. I guess it would be no different today. Men in power or in responsibilty letting pride and prejudice govern their thoughts and then label someone as an apostate who really isn&#39;t one in the first place.

Someday Jesus along with his Father, Jehovah, will set matters straight.

[billy]

So what are we given? A sign. Yes, a sign of Christ&#39;s presence. The disciples asked Jesus a three part question concerning this sign: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?"

[/b]


so being a 3 part question - does that mean

part 1 - "these things" = destruction of the temple
part 2 - "sign of your presence" = Tribulation
part 3 - "the sign of the conclusion" = Armeggedon