“if Any Man Is Reaching Out For An Office Of Overseer, He Is Desirous Of A Fine Work.”

[Kenneth]

This subject had been discussed previously but I feel its worth starting once again as I cant seem to find the answer to it in my own mind, and that is eldership. The question is can one serve as an elder in all good conscience.

At 1 Timothy 3 Paul encouraged males to reach out for office of oversight . "If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work." What though are the pros and cons of being an elder?

Eldership is one of privilege, of teaching and shepherding.


<span style="font-family:Verdana">Even so, a high standard was demanded, for The Watch Tower of November 1, 1909, said on page 325: "In the selection of Elders the consecrated should remember that the responsibility rests upon them; and no vote should be cast without studious consideration of the Divine will, and prayer for Divine guidance." The article went on to emphasize three characteristics of a good elder: (1) He was to be adept at teaching; (2) he should teach truth and not error; and (3) humility and piety were "paramount and primary qualifications for eldership." (Wt 83)[/b]</span>

<span style="font-family:Verdana">How can this be done, "he should teach truth and not error" when we know that so much is wrong. I don&#39;t wish to discourage those already serving as elders and I encourage you to remain in your post so as to shepherd the congregations.

Just how do we do it?

kenneth </span>

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Hi Kenneth,

you recently encouraged us with regard to our situation, and specifically my wife who posted the discussion topic. Now it is my turn (the husband) to respond to you. I am not an elder and never have been, despite twenty years in "the truth". I was made up to a ministerial servant quite quickly on becoming associated, but frankly being young and a little arrogant I found it hard to conform. Consequently I stood down of my own accord. In wordly terms I have been successful and held senior positions of leadership in a professional context and no doubt this didn&#39;t help me, or others to accept me. I&#39;m not sure why I mention all of this except to explain why a brother after so long is not an elder!
In any case, for some time I have felt that both the society and the elders in our congregation are treating us as children, as one brother on this DB recently put it. I can&#39;t tell you how many times I have protested to my wife that I am an intelligent adult and that if I treated employees as the elders often treat congregation members, I would be up before employment tribunals constantly. There is simply little respect shown by some elders either for the feelings or dignity of brothers and sisters. More recently I have felt more strongly, and there is almost a necessity to leave your brain at the door when one enters the Kingdom Hall - but the problem is, I dont. This therefore manifests itself as an indignance at what is said and those saying it. What has all this got to do with your point, your wondering...
Simply this, I wish you were an elder in my congregation. I know it is going to be difficult for you and at times you will feel disingenuous, but I feel very strongly that so far as you are able you must preserve your position short of outright lies. There will, I am sure be a growing band of us who will need the insights that an elder can provide in terms of guidance emanating from the society. It wouldn&#39;t surprise me if over time, the society tries in some way to identify who we are, perhaps by some affirmation of our dedication, who knows.
Remember Joseph of Arimithea and Nicodemus, they were also torn, but nevertheless demonstrably followers of Jesus. We are not told whether in time they relinquished their positions, but no doubt that was the case. The point is however that they bore witness to us all that Jesus did not deserve the treatment he received though they were ultimately powerless to stop it. You may have witness to bear in a powerful way yet. To stand down prematurely may mean that you do not have the opportunity to bear witness to the truth in an effective manner. I therefore encourage you to stand firm until the time arises where you know instinctively that your position is untenable. It seems to me, that that is what Robert has been forced to do, we may all have to do the same no matter what our position at present. That may be sooner, or later, but why not wait and see what Jehovah&#39;s will is for you?
Our hope must be that other elders soon find this site and realise for themselves what they have been shown - then your help will no doubt be invaluable. Stand firm Kenneth - for as long as you can...

Eli&#39;s Foe

[DoubtingThomas]

Hi Kenneth,

I too agree fully with the wisdom of Eli&#39;s Foe&#39;s counsel to remain an elder as long as possible. I also wish you were an elder in my congregation.

At present our congregation has four elders serving a congregation of about 90 publishers. I shouldn&#39;t say they are serving the congregation. They are more "lording it over" the brothers and sisters than truly serving them. One is a young man in his late 20&#39;s, who is very inexperienced in life. No children and never married. Two of our elders were sent here from the Society as graduates from the TMS School. They were sent because of problems in our congregation, and an entire elder body of 11 elders was deleted when they were sent here. There is only 1 remaining elder from the original 11. So I sorely miss having good experienced quality elders that i can go to and talk to in my congregation. The ones we have are strictly "Society men" who toe the compnay policy line to the letter.

It may be difficult for you, but I would encourage you (short of outright lying) to avoid any situation or confrontation that would violate your conscience in serving as an elder. As long as that little voice inside your head says it is alright, and you can continue to help the brothers and sisters as an elder, that is a good thing as you mentioned that Paul wrote to Timothy. But if your conscience begins to bother you, then you will know that it is time to step aside. But personally (or perhaps I am thinking selfishly here), we will need Brothers like you who are still serving officially in an appointed capacity of leadership to help guide and direct the rest of us in the final days of the Watchtower and this system.

You wrote: I don&#39;t wish to discourage those already serving as elders and I encourage you to remain in your post so as to shepherd the congregations.

Well, I think that is great advice Kenneth, and I would encourage you to also remain in your post.

You also wrote: Just how do we do it?

That is where you will need the wisdom, strength and courage that only God can provide. And I am sure He will direct your steps as you take this to Him. And whatever the eventual outcome is of your decision, and even though I do not know you, I will also be praying about this matter.

Good elders are hard to find these days.

Take care my Brother!

[Kenneth]

Hi Eli&#39;s Foe

Thanks for the encouragement.

I just want to clear up one point. I did serves as an elder for 10 years but for personal reasons resigned my position some time ago, just to make that clear.

Kenneth

[juffowup]

Hi Brother Kenneth,

We&#39;ve talked about this in private a bit. One thing I&#39;ve thought about since then, is what would you do if you were assigned a judicial committee for one who is accused of apostasy/causing divisions over the 1914 or silent lambs issue?

I wish we could have more elders in the organization who took their duties seriously and didn&#39;t go on power trips and so forth, but some of the reason we lack these kind of quality leaders is because of the process of what you have to do to get appointed, and what you have to continue to do to stay appointed. It is very hard for men in our position to reach out for these fine works. I would suspect Satan knew exactly what he was doing when he manipulated matters in this way.

I remember studying the Proclaimers book and thinking that things must have been really crazy when brothers were "elected" to local presider and other offices. Think of all the campaigning and divisions this must have caused. Our theocratic way is certainly better.

But is it? Now I appreciate that you have replaced the judgement and selection of the entire congregation to the judgement and selection of a half dozen or so, that meet behind closed doors, and a guy who comes up once every six months and hears a showcased instruction part and maybe goes out in service with you once, and whatever decision these make is then passed on to Bethel for rubberstamping? This is theocracy?

I just don&#39;t know how we can serve at this time without either intentionally deceiving our fellow elders and toeing the line on all matters of prophecy (as an Elder you could well be asked to conduct the Revelation book study! yikes!) and congregational discipline, and I just don&#39;t see how. My bones fairly burn with the desire to help some of the ones in my congregation, especially the ones who fall through the cracks.

But then I realize that I don&#39;t have to be and elder to help weak ones. I don&#39;t need permission from the elders to call ones and tell them I miss them at the meetings and invite them over to dinner with my family and share some encouragement. The only thing I need to be an elder to do is give talks off the platform, and while I always enjoyed that, I don&#39;t know if it is worth the other baggage.

One of these days, brother, I believe that either the society will cave in and renounce the 1914 doctrines for once and all. Do you know what I do as soon as I get my watchtower? I turn to questions for readers and pray that I see a sign of them coming around. Do you know what I do when I set foot in a district convention? I scan the program for signs that there&#39;ll be a land mark talk discarding this foolishness.

I remember the day we studied the watchtower doing away with the generational understanding. Most brothers and sisters were greatly disturbed, but there was this one brother, an old man in back, who was crying and I asked him about it. He said he&#39;d been waiting for over a decade for the brothers to correct this understanding. That he&#39;d written the society, and never had a response, and he was so happy to be back on the same page as everyone else.

This brother died soon after this, but I wish he was still around, because I just bet there was more he was waiting for, and I would love to talk to him about it.

It is a very hard thing that we are tested in this way. I don&#39;t know if they will ever change, or if Jehovah will judge them first, really I don&#39;t know much of anything. I leave that to others and try to keep my head on a swivel and keep my faith strong. But, that&#39;s the day I&#39;m waiting for to once again reach out in a public way to serve the congregation. I might have to wait for the great tribulation and maybe beyond.

[Kenneth]

Hi juffowup

Time and time again I go through the same dilemma in my mind, even before I put this post up I new in my heart that I would never serve as an elder again in this system. As for teaching things you could I suppose speak in the third person, the society says this and the society say that so to speak, far from ideal I known.

However, if one was called upon to be part of a judicial committee as a judge on grounds of apostasy it would prove unworkable. Imaging if we were both in the same congregation, we don&#39;t know each other and one of us is accuse of apostasy while the other is on the committee, the whole thing would be absurd. So I suppose be the best at what you can be the best at, a friend to others.

For those who read this remain in your post until it&#39;s untenable, at least as you are in the know, and know who needs what.

Kenneth :mellow:

[fruitage]

Hello Kenneth...how are you....

Being an elder for many... causes much stress and health related problems..its very hard on the brothers I would think...and at a time when we need them the most....that is qualified elders....many are walking away or having profound health problems and having to step down for one reason or another...hence we are having ones less qualified and younger who are taking their place.....

As I mentioned in one of my posts...now is the time to step up, and to pray for the younger ones all the while being long suffering on our part....

Due to the internet more are seeing all the things wrong within....yes many things...but there are so many things that are right too....plus imperfect fallen flesh....and due to this many are being stumbled out of having any faith at all....

I pray this DB will serve as a force through Holy Spirit to help ones come back to their senses....to help the weak ones regain their strength and insight and wisdom....we can be an instrument to be used by our heavanly Father to further his interests and purposes...

Take Care