The Holy Spirit

[Excaliber]

There are some strongly intrenched teachings about this topic. However there can be no debating against Gods word the bible.

How do you use your sword in the ministry to Define The Holy Spirit?

[fruitage]

Hi Excaliber...

Jo 7:39..But this he spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to recieve, for the Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified.....

Its wonderful to know we as disciples of Jesus can recieve the Holy Spirit making us stronger beyond what is normal....

All this because Jesus died for us as sinners and made all the Fathers promises as yes....we could not even go to the Father in prayer and ask for Holy Spirit if not for Jesus...

Take Care

[DoubtingThomas]

Excellent topic for discussion Excalibur. Here is what the Insight book has to say in part about God's Holy Spirit:

God’s Active Force; Holy Spirit. By far the majority of occurrences of ru´ach and pneu´ma relate to God’s spirit, his active force, his holy spirit.



Not a person. Not until the fourth century C.E. did the teaching that the holy spirit was a person and part of the “Godhead” become official church dogma. Early church “fathers” did not so teach; Justin Martyr of the second century C.E. taught that the holy spirit was an ‘influence or mode of operation of the Deity’; Hippolytus likewise ascribed no personality to the holy spirit. The Scriptures themselves unite to show that God’s holy spirit is not a person but is God’s active force by which he accomplishes his purpose and executes his will.



Other evidence of its impersonal nature. Further evidence against the idea of personality as regards the holy spirit is the way it is used in association with other impersonal things, such as water and fire (Mt 3:11; Mr 1:8); and Christians are spoken of as being baptized “in holy spirit.” (Ac 1:5; 11:16) Persons are urged to become “filled with spirit” instead of with wine. (Eph 5:18) So, too, persons are spoken of as being ‘filled’ with it along with such qualities as wisdom and faith (Ac 6:3, 5; 11:24) or joy (Ac 13:52); and holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities at 2 Corinthians 6:6. It is most unlikely that such expressions would be made if the holy spirit were a divine person. As to the spirit’s ‘bearing witness’ (Ac 5:32; 20:23), it may be noted that the same thing is said of the water and the blood at 1 John 5:6-8. While some texts refer to the spirit as ‘witnessing,’ ‘speaking,’ or ‘saying’ things, other texts make clear that it spoke through persons, having no personal voice of its own. (Compare Heb 3:7; 10:15-17; Ps 95:7; Jer 31:33, 34; Ac 19:2-6; 21:4; 28:25.) It may thus be compared to radio waves that can transmit a message from a person speaking into a microphone and cause his voice to be heard by persons a distance away, in effect, ‘speaking’ the message by a radio loudspeaker. God, by his spirit, transmits his messages and communicates his will to the minds and hearts of his servants on earth, who, in turn, may convey that message to yet others.



Other evidence of its impersonal nature. Further evidence against the idea of personality as regards the holy spirit is the way it is used in association with other impersonal things, such as water and fire (Mt 3:11; Mr 1:8); and Christians are spoken of as being baptized “in holy spirit.” (Ac 1:5; 11:16) Persons are urged to become “filled with spirit” instead of with wine. (Eph 5:18) So, too, persons are spoken of as being ‘filled’ with it along with such qualities as wisdom and faith (Ac 6:3, 5; 11:24) or joy (Ac 13:52); and holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities at 2 Corinthians 6:6. It is most unlikely that such expressions would be made if the holy spirit were a divine person. As to the spirit’s ‘bearing witness’ (Ac 5:32; 20:23), it may be noted that the same thing is said of the water and the blood at 1 John 5:6-8. While some texts refer to the spirit as ‘witnessing,’ ‘speaking,’ or ‘saying’ things, other texts make clear that it spoke through persons, having no personal voice of its own. (Compare Heb 3:7; 10:15-17; Ps 95:7; Jer 31:33, 34; Ac 19:2-6; 21:4; 28:25.) It may thus be compared to radio waves that can transmit a message from a person speaking into a microphone and cause his voice to be heard by persons a distance away, in effect, ‘speaking’ the message by a radio loudspeaker. God, by his spirit, transmits his messages and communicates his will to the minds and hearts of his servants on earth, who, in turn, may convey that message to yet others.

Distinguished from “power.” Ru´ach and pneu´ma, therefore, when used with reference to God’s holy spirit, refer to God’s invisible active force by which he accomplishes his divine purpose and will. It is “holy” because it is from Him, not of an earthly source, and is free from all corruption as “the spirit of holiness.” (Ro 1:4) It is not Jehovah’s “power,” for this English word more correctly translates other terms in the original languages (Heb., ko´ach; Gr., dy´na·mis). Ru´ach and pneu´ma are used in close association or even in parallel with these terms signifying “power,” which shows that there is an inherent connection between them and yet a definite distinction. (Mic 3:8; Zec 4:6; Lu 1:17, 35; Ac 10:38) “Power” is basically the ability or capacity to act or do things and it can be latent, dormant, or inactively resident in someone or something. “Force,” on the other hand, more specifically describes energy projected and exerted on persons or things, and may be defined as “an influence that produces or tends to produce motion, or change of motion.” “Power” might be likened to the energy stored in a battery, while “force” could be compared to the electric current flowing from such battery. “Force,” then, more accurately represents the sense of the Hebrew and Greek terms as relating to God’s spirit, and this is borne out by a consideration of the Scriptures.

Its Use in Creation. Jehovah God accomplished the creation of the material universe by means of his spirit, or active force. Regarding the planet Earth in its early formative stages, the record states that “God’s active force [or “spirit” (ru´ach)] was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.” (Ge 1:2) Psalm 33:6 says: “By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, and by the spirit of his mouth all their army.” Like a powerful breath, God’s spirit can be sent forth to exert power even though there is no bodily contact with that which is acted upon. (Compare Ex 15:8, 10.) Where a human craftsman would use the force of his hands and fingers to produce things, God uses his spirit. Hence that spirit is also spoken of as God’s “hand” or “fingers.”—Compare Ps 8:3; 19:1; Mt 12:28 with Lu 11:20.

Modern science speaks of matter as organized energy, like bundles of energy, and recognizes that “matter can be changed into energy and energy into matter.” (The World Book Encyclopedia, 1987, Vol. 13, p. 246) The immensity of the universe that man has thus far been able to discern with his telescopes gives some slight concept of the inexhaustible source of energy to be found in Jehovah God. As the prophet wrote: “Who has taken the proportions of the spirit of Jehovah?”—Isa 40:12, 13, 25, 26.

Source of animate life, reproductive powers. Not only inanimate creation but also all animate creation owes its existence and life to the operation of Jehovah’s spirit that produced the original living creatures through whom all living creatures today have come to exist. (Compare Job 33:4; see section of this article under “Breath; Breath of Life; Life-Force.”) Jehovah used his holy spirit to revive the reproductive powers of Abraham and Sarah, and therefore Isaac could be spoken of as “born in the manner of spirit.” (Ga 4:28, 29) By his spirit God also transferred his Son’s life from heaven to earth, causing conception in the womb of the virgin Jewess Mary.—Mt 1:18, 20; Lu 1:35.

Spirit Used on Behalf of God’s Servants. A principal operation of God’s spirit involves its ability to inform, to illuminate, to reveal things. Therefore David could pray: “Teach me to do your will, for you are my God. Your spirit is good; may it lead me in the land of uprightness.” (Ps 143:10) Much earlier, Joseph had given the interpretation of Pharaoh’s prophetic dreams, being enabled to do so by God’s help. The Egyptian ruler recognized the operation of God’s spirit in him. (Ge 41:16, 25-39) This illuminating power of the spirit is particularly notable in prophecy. Prophecy, as the apostle shows, did not spring from human interpretation of circumstances and events; it was not the result of some innate ability of the prophets to explain the meaning and significance of these or to forecast the shape of coming events. Rather, such men were “borne along by holy spirit”—conveyed, moved, and guided by God’s active force. (2Pe 1:20, 21; 2Sa 23:2; Zec 7:12; Lu 1:67; 2:25-35; Ac 1:16; 28:25; see PROPHECY; PROPHET.) So, too, all the inspired Scriptures were “inspired of God,” which translates the Greek the·o´pneu·stos, meaning, literally, “God-breathed.” (2Ti 3:16) The spirit operated in various manners in communicating with such men and guiding them, in some cases causing them to see visions or dreams (Eze 37:1; Joe 2:28, 29; Re 4:1, 2; 17:3; 21:10), but in all cases operating on their minds and hearts to motivate and guide them according to God’s purpose.—Da 7:1; Ac 16:9, 10; Re 1:10, 11; see INSPIRATION.

God’s spirit, then, not only brings revelation and understanding of God’s will but also energizes his servants to accomplish things in accord with that will. That spirit acts as a driving force that moves and impels them, even as Mark says the spirit “impelled” Jesus to go into the wilderness after his baptism. (Mr 1:12; compare Lu 4:1.) It can be like a “fire” within them, causing them to be “aglow” with that force (1Th 5:19; Ac 18:25; Ro 12:11), in a sense ‘building up steam’ or pressure in them to do certain work. (Compare Job 32:8, 18-20; 2Ti 1:6, 7.) They receive the “power of the spirit,” or “power through his spirit.” (Lu 2:27; Eph 3:16; compare Mic 3:8.) Yet it is not merely some unconscious, blind impulse, for their minds and hearts are affected as well so that they can intelligently cooperate with the active force given them. Thus the apostle could say of those who had received the gift of prophecy in the Christian congregation that the “gifts of the spirit of the prophets are to be controlled by the prophets,” so that good order might be maintained.—1Co 14:31-33.

Variety of operations. Even as an electric current can be used to accomplish a tremendous variety of things, so God’s spirit is used to commission and enable persons to do a wide variety of things. (Isa 48:16; 61:1-3) As Paul wrote of the miraculous gifts of the spirit in his day: “Now there are varieties of gifts, but there is the same spirit; and there are varieties of ministries, and yet there is the same Lord; and there are varieties of operations, and yet it is the same God who performs all the operations in all persons. But the manifestation of the spirit is given to each one for a beneficial purpose.”—1Co 12:4-7.

Now as far as my personal thoughts about the Holy Spirit from my studies and limited insight of the subject: If we pray and ask Jehovah for His active force to help us, in harmony with His will for us, then he is like a loving parent who enjoys giving one of his children a gift, and God will gladly give such a wonderful gift to one of His children.

Personally, I do pray for Jehovah to give me some of His Holy Spirit. I also feel or believe that His spirit has been operative upon me at certain times in my life, and motivated me to say, think or do certain things at certain times. I pray that He does not ever withdraw His Holy Spirit from me, and that I will never grieve His Holy Spirit.

Excellent topic Excalibur. I believe the Insight Book defines from the Bible what is the Holy Spirit, but I wanted to add my 2 cents worth about what I "think" it has done in my life also. And I hope that others will respond with their knowledge on the subject, and any experiences they may have had personally with the Holy Spirit being operative in their lives.

[fruitage]

Hello Thomas...thankyou for posting that ...we do so need to be reminded and brought back to our senses ....as some who come here are in such need of not being stumbled out of the faith

Take Care of yourself brother...

[Nash]

Hi Fruitage! B)

I certainly like your (new) username.

You know what, though...I am reminded of flowers. ;)

You said: "...as some who come here are in such need of not being stumbled out of the faith."

Jehovah's Witnesses certainly are the true faith, since we know that they understand many biblical doctrines better than any denomination of Christendom.

Certainly, it is my intention to assist anyone and everyone to realize the above fact, and I, for one, never encourage anyone to stop associating with their fellow brothers and sisters at the Kingdom Hall.

Nash

[fruitage]

Howdy There Nash....how are you....

I prayed longer and harder than I can remember praying in a long time...so long and so hard....till everytime I would say Amen....Jehovah lead me to keep praying...the prayer went on till I fell alsleep praying....the next day , my prayers were answered...as I asked Jehovah to let me know in a way I knew for sure about where he wanted me to be...sometime I will share with all.

The last 3 days have been very profound and spiritual...and I thank Jehovah my heavanly Father for keeping his hand on me...through the last 2 yrs...I learned I came full circle...only knowing Christ and Christ impaled more fully and to rely totally on Jehovah.

I have much to offer in the way of encouragement to the brothers and sisters who come here and who are being stumbled...and hope with many prayers for all including myself to stay close to my brothers and sisters and Jehovah and Christ Jesus my Lord and Saviour..

Take Care of yourself Nash

your sis

PS...we are imperfect people, in a perfect God....through the works of Christ Jesus

[Criterion]

Howdy There Nash....how are you....

I prayed longer and harder than I can remember praying in a long time...so long and so hard....till everytime I would say Amen....Jehovah lead me to keep praying...the prayer went on till I fell alsleep praying....the next day , my prayers were answered...as I asked Jehovah to let me know in a way I knew for sure about where he wanted me to be...sometime I will share with all.[/b]

Good morning 'fruitage,'

It's comforting to know that someone besides me falls asleep sometimes when getting all caught up in earnest prayer. I sometimes worry how Jehovah feels about that, but I think he just has himself a chuckle or two over it.


The last 3 days have been very profound and spiritual...and I thank Jehovah my heavanly Father for keeping his hand on me...through the last 2 yrs...I learned I came full circle...only knowing Christ and Christ impaled more fully and to rely totally on Jehovah.

I have much to offer in the way of encouragement to the brothers and sisters who come here and who are being stumbled...and hope with many prayers for all including myself to stay close to my brothers and sisters and Jehovah and Christ Jesus my Lord and Saviour..[/b]

I think that there are times when it's all we can manage to do, to encourage others. So often, it can come down to focusing on the areas where we disagree, or where personalities clash and create problems, or even our inborn sense of justice and our disdain for injustice, when innocent ones are made to suffer. But we can quickly get caught up in the negatives, so much so that we lose sight of just what it is that we're trying to do: to just get through this, together if possible. So, when we see ourselves talking more and more about the indignance we feel over certain matters, the more we see ourselves speaking critically and with judgmentalism, it is precisely that moment of realization when we need to hear ourselves say, "Let's just get to the Kingdom" because most of the problems that we're witness to at this time are not going to be resolved on this side of this system of things--if they could, we'd have seen it happen by now. Neither can we be expected to put blinders on and ignore those problems. It doesn't work that way, and I'm not sure that I'd want it to, although I believe I was a lot happier before I knew such things (ignorance IS bliss, but it isn't necessary a blessing).

The key may very well be in remembering that this is precisely why we need Christ's kingdom, here... now.

And when we accept that, then may we use every last whispering breath in prayer to Jehovah that he grants us the strength to remain faithful and to endure in spite of these things.

It's also true that the love that we had at first may require rekindling, but with the right amount of care and intent, it can be restored, so that the warmth it gives off can be both inviting and comforting to those around us.

Just some early morning thoughts.

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[fruitage]

Hello Criterion...how are you this morning...

I am feeling resolved and so very spiritual and settled ...Yes....maybe it is a protection to not know certain things....maybe curiosity did kill the cat....maybe the brothers and sisters are protected by not knowing...and maybe too ignorance is bliss...

I have been able to separate an imperfect and failing religious institution from Jehovah and from Jesus and the brothers and the sisters from our own imperfections and failings...I&#39;m leaving all these things in Jehovah and Jesus hands....and knowing in the end we will have done the Christain things as disciples of Christ...

I&#39;m not sweating the things that would get us side tracked and only seeing the negative things....

As my mom always says...Jehovah will not destroy one person who does not need to be destroyed or judged as according to Jo 5:22 its Jesus who does the judging and resurrecting...so Jesus knows the hearts of all and in the end all will come to gether in Christ and last of all become reconciled to Jehovah God...all things...all creation will have been restored to Jehovahs purposes through Christ Jesus..I&#39;m praying for all who have learned the things from the internet to work through the things we&#39;ve learned and get past them....most of our brothers and sister do not have a clue and are serving Jehovah and trying to be disciples of Christ to the best of what has been given them....working within a flawed and imperfect system..

Take Care of yourself

your sis

[Criterion]

Hello Criterion...how are you this morning...

I am feeling resolved and so very spiritual and settled ...Yes....maybe it is a protection to not know certain things....maybe curiosity did kill the cat....maybe the brothers and sisters are protected by not knowing...and maybe too ignorance is bliss...[/b]

I&#39;m not entirely convinced that they are protected by not knowing. It seems a precarious situation, because if you think things are fine and will continue to be fine, what happens when your world is turned upside down and you find your utter faith put to the test as to what it was that you really had faith in? For the Jews going into the Common Era, it was their absolute conviction that the Temple and that form of worship would continue forever, and they believed it right up until the destruction of Jerusalem. I think it&#39;s extremely dangerous to place our faith in the form of worship itself as something that will continue into perpetuity. Unfortunately, most of the friends are under the belief that while all the other religions of the world will be destroyed, this organization will be left standing, for the most part. Even hinting that things may not go down the way we&#39;re being told will result in raised eyebrows and an impromptu meeting with the local elders. That&#39;s scary, to me. There is no "Plan B" for when things don&#39;t go down as they&#39;re expected.

What role we will have remains to be seen, I think. All I pray at this time is that whatever happens, I&#39;m in a position to where I can of use to Jehovah in helping the friends. If it means certain death for me, so be it. But I love the friends, and while I also love all of humankind, I have obviously been placed where I am today for the sake of the friends especially, although not to the exclusion of others who are in as much need and as deserving of the same help but are not a part of my local congregation.

But this I know: because we have been made aware, because we do know, it is only because Jehovah himself opened our eyes, which means that we have been especially blessed with holy spirit. What we do now will demonstrate much, not only to Jehovah, but to the myriads of angels who are watching us and praying for us, and waiting for the opportunity to come to our personal aid in our moment of need, for we know that they are ministers of Jehovah, ready and willing to aid us in our hour of need. And I suppose when it all comes down to it, that&#39;s the sort of attitude we should have for our fellowmen.

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[fruitage]

Hello Criterion....It&#39;s good you pointed that out....and in the end all will be where they need to be...we at this point in time are being shaken to our senses to not put faith in man/men or institutions but right where it belongs in Jehovah and Christ Jesus....I have faith that in the end all will realize the difference....and yes it is scary....so I pray to not be in fear of man and what man can do to me and to my brothers and sisters.....when all is falling apart we will be rooted and grounded where we need to be, and that will not be in crumbling institutions...

Take care of yourself

your sis

[Excaliber]

Hello everyone,
this is simply the coolest changing of subjects ever. This discusion is just as interesting as the original post. Keeping people in the truth is a major issue. From my understanding even the mormons are twice our size..and they started around the same time we did.

But back to my question in Handeling the word of truth.


DoubtingThomas copied the insight book on the subject...thats cool.
But its like when you solve a math equasion, most teachers ask you to show your work....not just copy an answer.

So copying the insight book or a watchtower will get you an interesting answer....but lets show ower work. Or show the scriptures and OUR thoughts on those scriptures that gave us personaly the answer we are copying from a watchtower publication.

Personal experiences are nice also.

Many people coment at the meeting this way " I did not understand this, so I did some RESEARCH and the 1955 watchtower said etc...etc..."
So there personal research was nothing more then finding an old watchtower on the subject. But they cant "show there work"

[DoubtingThomas]

Yeah we did get a little off topic there Excalibur. We didn&#39;t mean to hijack your thread. But that too would make an excellent subject for discussion - "Keeping People In &#39;The Truth&#39; ". Maybe someone can start a new thread for that.The 2006 year report was in the February 1, 2007 WT, and the numbers of those coming/staying in the organization were dissapointingly low (imho).

But back to this topic - Holy Spirit.

I was a little bit lazy and also in a hurry, and that was the reason I just copied and pasted from the Insight book. But I do believe that the writers on the subject have an accurate understanding of what the Holy Spirit is.

If there are any opposing arguments to the writer of that article in the Insight book, or any additional insight on what the Holy Spirit is, I for one would interested in hearing about it. But I think the article accurately described God&#39;s Spirit. it is not some mysterious part of a triune godhead like most churches/religions teach. it is very simply God&#39;s active force, and it can be illustrated or likened to the force or power of electricity. It can infuse power or motivate us, just like electricity can power a light bulb, or electric blender or toatser.

I would like to hear any thoughts of yours on the Holy Spirit Excalibur. And everyone else on this forum also.

[Criterion]

Hello everyone,
this is simply the coolest changing of subjects ever. This discusion is just as interesting as the original post. Keeping people in the truth is a major issue. From my understanding even the mormons are twice our size..and they started around the same time we did.

But back to my question in Handeling the word of truth.


DoubtingThomas copied the insight book on the subject...thats cool.
But its like when you solve a math equasion, most teachers ask you to show your work....not just copy an answer.

So copying the insight book or a watchtower will get you an interesting answer....but lets show ower work. Or show the scriptures and OUR thoughts on those scriptures that gave us personaly the answer we are copying from a watchtower publication.

Personal experiences are nice also.

Many people coment at the meeting this way " I did not understand this, so I did some RESEARCH and the 1955 watchtower said etc...etc..."
So there personal research was nothing more then finding an old watchtower on the subject. But they cant "show there work"[/b]

Good afternoon, &#39;Excaliber,&#39;

For most of the friends, this is enough for them. They research what the Society has published, they find it, and it&#39;s good enough for them. But this isn&#39;t always the case, and in some cases all it does is raise more questions than it answers. Unfortunately, some become convinced that if they dig deep enough, if they examine enough things, that they&#39;ll find peace again, that they&#39;ll find the real truth buried somewhere under all the false notions and misconceptions. But I tell you this: no matter how far you dig, you&#39;re still going to find "dirt."

At some point, you have to stop digging, look back up out of the hole you&#39;ve been digging, and remember the sky, the sun, the warm breeze of fresh air. The answers are there, but they&#39;re in the Kingdom. We may, if we try really really hard, stumble across some truth, but at what cost? Jehovah has allowed His spirit to open my eyes to see, and for a great long time I staggered around, unprepared for what I saw. But my eyes seem to have grown accustomed to the light again, and I can better see what I must do now.

It isn&#39;t about finding out what else the Society is wrong about. Of course their going to be wrong about one thing or another. That&#39;s a given, isn&#39;t it?

But what an amazing example of childlike humility to see the friends continue to move forward in the congregation in spite of these things. I imagine it&#39;s a lot like being the only kid in class who knows that Santa Claus isn&#39;t real. Am I the kid who goes around destroying the belief for everyone else? I always despised those kids that did that! Or do I let them continue to believe what they do because it brings them happiness and keeps their eye on the Kingdom? Who am I to say that Jehovah isn&#39;t taking all of this into consideration as the Day draws near? The Bible&#39;s adamant: the teachers of God&#39;s people will be held to the level of accountability directly relative to their level of understanding. Those in authority over others will likewise be held accountable for what they do while in authority (and that includes the Watchtower Society) while the Master and Head is away. And the refining process that surely lays ahead will be a very trying time for the friends. There&#39;s no telling how many will lose their faith entirely, but it must be the greater number, for Jesus, in speaking of when he does arrive, asked whether he would even find faith. That says a lot, and it&#39;s a warning bell to all of us to shore up our faith--not in the form of worship, but in trusting Jehovah to carry us through.

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[Excaliber]

Criterion,
I am sorry brother, I dont understand the meaning of your statement.
I "Think" you are talking about trying to find errors in our doctrine. If so..this should not be our motivation for studying the scriptures.

You said there was a price to pay for studying the scriptures. Would you elaborate more on what exactly you meant?

I think of bible study as spiritual food. We need to progress to spiritual MEET, and not continue to feed on milk.
How do we grow spiritualy if we allow someone else to chew our food for us. or in other words, how do we grow spiritualy if someone else dose our bible study. Its like a bird that chews up some food and then spits it in the mouth of her children.
This is neccesary while the birds are young. But if this continues into there adult hood it dose more harm then good, because the birds have no idea of how to hunt or chew food for themselves.

Do you understand what I am saying brother?
Looking at the results of someone elses study&#39;s...."ALL THE TIME"...will cause us to remain as a spiritual babe. We should be just as versed in scripture as the publishers of the watchtower.

I propose we tackle this subject about The Holy Spirit by reading scripture...and context....and compareing translations...then discusing these things prayerfully and comeing to a conclusion.
Remember brother that we were always bible students before we adopted the name Jehovahs witnesses. This movement was founded by C.T.Russel who developed the pattern of..selecting a subject for study, reading all scriptures in context, then from that came the meaning of that particular subject. We can do the very same thing here about the subject "The Holy Spirit".

Lets takle this like the bible students before they adopted a different name.

Who would like to start by presenting a scripture for consideration?

[Criterion]

I think of bible study as spiritual food. We need to progress to spiritual MEET, and not continue to feed on milk.
How do we grow spiritualy if we allow someone else to chew our food for us. or in other words, how do we grow spiritualy if someone else dose our bible study. Its like a bird that chews up some food and then spits it in the mouth of her children.
This is neccesary while the birds are young. But if this continues into there adult hood it dose more harm then good, because the birds have no idea of how to hunt or chew food for themselves.

Do you understand what I am saying brother?
Looking at the results of someone elses study&#39;s...."ALL THE TIME"...will cause us to remain as a spiritual babe. We should be just as versed in scripture as the publishers of the watchtower.[/b]

Whether a brother or sister relies on the Society&#39;s findings as the final word, it is their decision, and Jehovah as well as Jesus are the examiner of their heart, not me. It is not my place to say they are shirking Christian maturity by doing so, because I cannot read their heart. I know what I do, personally, as a Christian, of course, but I also recognize that I am a far cry from being spiritually mature. The fact is, there are brothers and sisters that I personally know who--although the rely fully on the Society&#39;s explanations, still manage to exhibit fruitages of the spirit that I still strive for in my own life. So, there is more to it than filling one&#39;s head with an exacting of Scripture, from what I can tell. Who am I to condemn them and say that they are the sort who need someone to "chew" the meat for them and then feed them the regurgitated food? That&#39;s a call that Jesus will make, and he&#39;s in a far better position to do so than I am.

Likewise, if I feel compelled to dig deeper into the Bible than the average person, it&#39;s because I am being led to do so by holy spirit. That doesn&#39;t make me any better or wiser than the next person. And the fact is, the vast majority of the friends who rely "all the time" on the Society for scriptural understanding are incredibly adept at citing scripture and being able to put the pieces together through reasoning. I don&#39;t see how that is necessarily a bad thing for them.


I propose we tackle this subject about The Holy Spirit by reading scripture...and context....and compareing translations...then discusing these things prayerfully and comeing to a conclusion.
Remember brother that we were always bible students before we adopted the name Jehovahs witnesses. This movement was founded by C.T.Russel who developed the pattern of..selecting a subject for study, reading all scriptures in context, then from that came the meaning of that particular subject. We can do the very same thing here about the subject "The Holy Spirit".
Who would like to start by presenting a scripture for consideration?[/b]

As you have raised the question/subject, doesn&#39;t it seem more appropriate that you be the one to begin the discussion? I have the feeling that there&#39;s a point you&#39;re wanting to make, so maybe it would be better if I just allow you to proceed as you feel it necessary to do, and go from there?

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[Excaliber]

Criterion,
You said regurgitated ...lets not be so grafic, some of us have sensitive stomachs.

Dude I am not trying to judge people...or say that they like to eat regurgitated food...or....trying to prove somepoint....I am not saying people that read watchtowers dont have the frutage of the spirit.....or anything else anyone can think of thats bad. I pinky promise !!! Lets not be TOOOO serious.Ok I will go first...hmmmm.
Ok lets read this scripture as an example of God&#39;s spirit and how The Spirit has effected humans in the past.

Genesis 6:3 "³ After that Jehovah said: "My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years."

[Excaliber]

This seems to be a bit of a boring topic to others, so lets get down to the nity grity.
Here is a very important question about The Holy Spirit.

LUKE 12:10
¹⁰ And everyone that says a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but he that blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven it

Explain how we get the meaning of this verse?

[olrono]

<div class='quotemain'>This seems to be a bit of a boring topic to others, so lets get down to the nity grity.
Here is a very important question about The Holy Spirit.

LUKE 12:10
[b]<sup>This is easy brothers, sometimes the Bible is referring to the Holy Spirit, as in Jehovah’s ‘active force’. And sometimes it is referring to The Holy Spirit, as in Jehovah Him self! Remember, Jehovah is Spirit, and He is Holy!