Hebrews 11:13-16

[Berean]

I recently stumbled upon this text, and it got me thinking.

In faith all these died, although they did not get the fulfillment of the promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that place from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they are reaching out for a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them. - Hebrews 11:13-16

What is the place belonging to heaven? And what is the city God made ready for Abraham et al? I personally came up with two solutions, but I'm willing to hear what you guys think of this.

1) Abraham, Enoch, and the others mentioned in Hebrews 11:1-12 had a heavenly hope.

This seems to be supported by the following texts:
* Abraham appears to be in heaven in Jesus' illustration of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)
* Enoch was transferred and nowhere to be found afterwards (Hebrews 11:5, 6)
* Paul spoke of a citizenship in heaven - this could be of the city God has made ready (Philippians 3:20)
* Jehovah is a God of the living, not of the dead (Matthew 22:31, 32)

2) They have an earthly hope.

* Up until John the Baptist, the kingdom of the heavens was not a goal to press toward (Matthew 11:11, 12)
* The resurrection hadn't yet occurred (2 Timothy 2:18)
* This could mean that the "New Jerusalem" from Revelation 21:2 will quite literally descend to Earth to change it into a paradise

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

[watchman]

there is no way Abraham or anyone else who lived before Christ went to heaven. Jesus said "no one has ascended to heaven except he that descended from heaven." Jesus is the firstborn from the dead. That means that no one received a heavenly resurrection before Christ.

Abraham was simply awaiting God's heavenly kingdom to take control. He didn't know much about then. There was no Bible. He simply had faith that God would set things straight.

[Jeshurun]

What is the place belonging to heaven? And what is the city God made ready for Abraham et al? I personally came up with two solutions, but I'm willing to hear what you guys think of this.[/b]

I have often grappled with this span of verses. Paul certainly did not SPELL THINGS OUT at times.

Interestingly, the vast majority of translations render the ancient Greek epouranios as "heavenly", but once again the NWT is showing deeper insight. Strong's Concordance had this to say about ekouranios (evidently the slight variance comes from modern Greek, as there is no ekouranios in the ancient Greek lexicon):



1537. ek ek or ex ex a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):--after, among, X are, at, betwixt(-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for(- th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, ...ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with(-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion. 3770. ouranios oo-ran'-ee-os from 3772; celestial, i.e. belonging to or coming from the sky:--heavenly. 3968. patris pat-rece' from 3902; a father-land, i.e. native town; (figuratively) heavenly home:--(own) country.

This explains to me what Paul meant when he said later on that they "did not get the fulfillment of the promise, as God foresaw something better for us....that we might not be made perfect apart from them".

So Paul is speaking of the new heavens and new earth as a unit, with God's government completely in control of the jurisdiction of the earth. It seems to me that this is what Abraham was longing for.

Agape
Lou

[Berean]

Yes, I must admit my #1 solution wasn't exactly water tight... I like your explanation, Jesh, about the new heavens and earth forming a unity, under God. We're in for something very special in paradise. :) Thanks for your replies!

[Jinnvisible]

So I&#39;ll repaste some of that text below and underline the parts relating to inheritors or seed and it&#39;s importance. As it is the distinction between Seed and Patriarch necessary to understand the original inquiry.</span>

Hebrews 11:7-31

By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this faith he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that is according to faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed in going out into a place he was destined to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, although not knowing where he was going. By faith he resided as an alien in the land of the promise as in a foreign land, and dwelt in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the very same promise. For he was awaiting the city having real foundations, the builder and maker of which city is God.

By faith also Sarah herself received power to conceive seed, even when she was past the age limit, since she esteemed him faithful who had promised. Hence also from one man, and him as good as dead, there were born children just as the stars of heaven for multitude and as the sands that are by the seaside, innumerable.

In faith all these died, although they did not get the fulfillment of the promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that place from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they are reaching out for a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them.

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac, and the man that had gladly received the promises attempted to offer up his only-begotten son, although it had been said to him: "What will be called &#39;your seed&#39; will be through Isaac." But he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead; and from there he did receive him also in an illustrative way.

By faith also Isaac blessed Jacob and E´sau concerning things to come.

By faith Jacob, when about to die, blessed each of the sons of Joseph and worshiped leaning upon the top of his staff.

By faith Joseph, nearing his end, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel; and he gave a command concerning his bones.

By faith Moses was hid for three months by his parents after his birth, because they saw the young child was beautiful and they did not fear the order of the king. By faith Moses, when grown up, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh, choosing to be ill-treated with the people of God rather than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin, because he esteemed the reproach of the Christ as riches greater than the treasures of Egypt; for he looked intently toward the payment of the reward. By faith he left Egypt, but not fearing the anger of the king, for he continued steadfast as seeing the One who is invisible. By faith he had celebrated the Passover and the splashing of the blood, that the destroyer might not touch their firstborn ones.

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[Berean]

Thanks Jinnvisible, that cleared things up for me. Sometimes one (in this case me) takes words at face value, not digging deeper. But now it&#39;s clear to me that Paul used Abraham as an example for the spiritual Israelites he was writing to, not entirely dissimilar to what he did in Galatians 4:21-31. Thanks again! :)