Repentance.how?

[Gabriel]

How does one achieve a sincere mental state of repentance? according to the insight book,repentance isnt something thats easily achieved. in volume 2 Page 772 under the subheading "getting the sence with the heart" it states more is involved than a simple intellectual reconition of the wrongness but a heart appreciation of this fact. It aso has a scriptural referance that really made me think that perhaps more than the individuals understanding and acceptance of the fact that the course that he or she has taken is wrong but it requires Gods help for a person to achieve genuine repentance.

The scripture is 2Tim 2:23-26 " Now im no Bible wiz by anymeans but does this indicate that a person must also rely on Jehovah to grant repentance, That this isnt a state of mind or condition that one could acieve on his own?? In other words, A person must beseech Jehovah to assist him/her to come back to their proper sences. Doing so alone will be extreamly difficult.

Am I on the right track here family? What do you guys think.</span></span>

[Nambo]

I think your completely on track Gabriel, we are but Children and the Satanic Elite who control all aspects of the world including education, have ensured that we have been brought up and indictrinated to belive what is bad is good.

Sure, when you become a Christian and you learn things you felt good about yourself for doing are actually displeasing to Jehovah, its easy enough to think yeah, I wish I never done them things now, purely because Jehovah doesnt like it, but it takes a lot more to actually hate the things themselves for thier own badness and the long term effects they can have.

This can take a long time and maybe Jehovah lets distressfull things happen to us so that we can really belive why the things he says are bad, really are bad.

Anything you ask Jehovah for in line with his purpose, he will do, so if you are struggling with this, be as David and pray to Jehovah that you really do want a good heart and the onus will be on Jehovah to help eventually make it so.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Hi Gabriel,

I tend to take a more simplistic view of these things because we can make the whole subject so complicated that we begin to wonder if repentance and consequently forgiveness can be achieved, and lead to a good conscience.

In the parable of the Prodigal Son, Jesus clearly shows that the wayward son came to the realisation of his error himself (his Father was not with him at the time, and he had no wise counsellors). In fact it seems to me this is of great value, we have all been given free will, so if we choose to do something or not do something ourselves we demonstrate our acceptance or denial of Jehovah&#39;s guidance. It is all too easy to blame Satan for our own mistakes and wrong courses of action. Yes, he has established a minefield through which we have to walk in life, and no doubt deliberate traps and snares are placed in our path but all too often we could avoid those mistakes and choose (sometimes by just ignoring the consequences) to slip into the snare anyway.

The prodigal son had a "wonderful" time living it up in the world, it was only when he came to rock bottom and had time to reflect on things that he realised how much better off he had been at home. Now, wouldn&#39;t it also be reasonable to think that the thought would have crossed his mind that in a sense he was still being selfish? That he had squandered his inheritance and now wasn&#39;t happy with his lot, but dad might still bail him out? The problem with over analysis is that it can have the effect of talking us out of doing the right thing because we judge ourselves very harshly, and begin to feel we cannot attain a good conscience again - that of course is the greatest of Satan&#39;s devices - Discouragement.

When the Prodigal Son got home, his Father saw him a long way off and went out to meet him, no further questions were asked. Jehovah is like that too, if we show by our actions, prayers and unhappiness with whatever we have done and approach him, he as it were comes out to meet us and take us the rest of the way home. Imagine how that son would have felt seeing what his Father had done - wouldn&#39;t his appreciation have grown for his Father? wouldn&#39;t he have been moved to greater sorrow over what he had done? been more repentent? of course. So we see that what begins as a reasoned approach to God, and a realisation of our mistakes, converts into a determined effort to find our way home and then and only then does our Father bring us to a true realisation of our repentence and its heartfelt reality.

EF

[Theopompus]

Gabriel, your question on repentance intrigues me. I believe your on the right track in thinking Jah&#39;s help in this matter is a critical ingredient.

I think this because of the record of King David and his experience with Bathsheba.

Not until Nathan the prophet exposed David with his illustration of the rich man and poor man&#39;s lamb did David come to his senses. It seems to have been an intellectual and heart felt realization of his error. But there is more to this if you&#39;ll bear with me for a moment; it startes with the word create in the Hebrew word meaning.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Bara is the root word used here for create in the Hebrew Scriptures and appears 47 times. In all of these 47 times in the same sentence appears along with bara the words Adonay, Elohim or YHWH. This means that bara is the exclusive activity of Jehovah God and is outside of human capabilities. Bara is to create something out of nothing and differs from yasar, to fashion out of existing substance -- (see footnote on Genesis 1:16 Rbi-8).

What is the point of all this? When David came to his senses in repentance of his sin with Bathsheba and her husband Uriah he did a very unusual and exceptional thing among men. Remember David lived under a national covenent with God already. If there was transgression of the laws there were sacrifices for personal and national short comings by the priestly order at the temple. As faithful a man David was he realized it was not within his ability to keep the Law and thus make his heart or character godlike, being a son of Adam.

David prayed to Jehovah -- "Create (bara is the word here) in me even a pure heart, O God, and put within me a new spirit, a steadfast one." Ps 51:10. Recall, bara is the exclusive activity of Jah and is outside of the abilities of man.

Although we must wake up to our sins, repentance seems to be an ongoing activity of Jehovah&#39;s help.

IMO Theopompus

[Gabriel]

That is a very intreging thought Theopompus. And thank all of you for posting a responce to my thread. I am theroughly convenced that "Repentance" Requires God&#39;s spirit. Sure, we can reconize our errors and faults on a "Intellectual" level but that in itself doesn&#39;t constitute repentance in its purest form. We may even want to feel sorry for what we&#39;ve done and even try and convience ourselves that we are....and yet still do the samething again. It grieves us because the act grieves JEHOVAH....not because we hate the act for what it truely is. As we continue to fight to maintain our relationship with Father, Then it is him who brings us into repentance in the fuller sence. But He will only do this if repentace is what we are striving for. Just my thoughts.