Revelation 13

[Nambo]

Revelation 13:1-18

And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. 2 (http://) Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to [the beast] its power and its throne and great authority.

3 (http://) And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4 (http://) And they worshiped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshiped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?” 5 (http://) And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it. 6 (http://) And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence, even those residing in heaven. 7 (http://) And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8 (http://) And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it; the name of not one of them stands written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered, from the founding of the world.

11 (http://) And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 (http://) And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. 13 (http://) And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.

14 (http://) And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 (http://) And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.
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Now the first 8 verses look to me like they are about the New World Order that will rule for 42 months and will battle with the Holy ones, as in Daniel 12 Planting its palatial tents between the Holy Mountain etc.

The fact that it has the number 10 significing completeness, of all the Kindgoms of Mankind?, the discriptioon matches the beasts of Daniel and the various parts of the image, all united at the end into this One World Order.

The second wild beast with the two horns is said to be the Anglo-American world power, and it does seem this will be the most likely beast to get Mankind to worship the United "One World Order" beast.

So far, is this what the society says?

Its a while since I read the Revelation book.

The bit I struggle with is the "death stroke that got healed bit, dos the society still say this head was the Anglo-American world power that got a death stroke in the first world war?, thats the bit I struggle with.

I think Ive read opinions on this board that the death stroke to the A/A world power is yet to come, but how does it work out to fit the 1st beast ruling for 42 months after its death stroke gets healed?, ie, whats to happen to destroy the Anglo/American world power, only for it to come back and then get us all to worship another world power in the form of the New World Order?

Iam trying to think of another Biblical Beast that was destroyed, yet comes back in the form of the New World Order.
Whilst I can think of Isreal as a Nation rather than a religion coming back from the dead, I think Zionism plays an even greater role elsewhere that I will start to explore with you all.
The only other beast I can think of that has been destroyed and that WILL come back in the form of the One World Order, was the prewvious incarnation of this particular beast in the form of Nimrods Babylon?

[watchman]

The Wt says that the head of the beast was slaughtered during WWI. And it says the image of the beast came to life in 1919 with the formation of the League of Nations. That beast went into the abyss during WWII and then crawled out of the abyss in 1945 with the formation of the United Nations. The WT claims that everyone who is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses has already been given the 666 mark of the beast since 1919 and 1945. They don't bother to explain how a political minded person of the world could become one of Jehovah's Witnesses if they have already been stenciled with the irremovable mark of the beast.

Anyway, the WT's nonsensical interpretations aside, it is self-evident that the death-stroke upon the seventh head is yet to be administered. (See essay on the Eighth King (http://e-watchman.com/essays/judgment-day-last-hour-eighth-king.html)) The coming death of the Anglo-American system will undoubtedly come about via instantaeous financial collapse, perhaps initiated by a terrorist attack of some sort, which will bring about the end of the democratic nation-state system. But because the United States and Britain comprise the most powerful military alliance on earth we may expect that the Anglo-American king will become a world dictatorship by virtue of its incontestable military power. Any nation that dares to defy it will simply be obliterated. Most likely the resurrected beast will make fire fall from heaven by raining down nuclear missiles from the sky.

Watchman

[Nambo]

Though I find you explaination makes a lot more sense than the Watchtowers non-sensical contradictions, a couple of things I have trouble with.

You write in your essay, "It stands to reason that the 7th head that is slaughtered to death is merely a reflection of the mortal blow that Satan himself receives as a result of Christ ousting him and his demonic horde from heaven. This is also evident from the chronology that fixes a three-and-a-half year period to both the time immediately following the beast's death stroke, as well as the short interval after Satan is booted from heaven. Surely the periods run concurrently. "

This looks like you are saying the death stroke of the 7th head lasts for 3 1/2 years?
But this 3 1/2 period is the 42 months described in Revelation and Daniel of the rulership of the 8th king and its authority to trample and destroy the holy ones of God.
Are we to understand that the 7 headed beast has its finest hour whilst one of its heads is dead?, the same head that is also represented by the two horned wild beast that causes mankind to worship the seven headed wild beast, ie, how does the Angl0?American world power force people to worship the UN if itself is in a death state?

If this is not what you meant, can you put in order the events of the death stroke, its revival, then the 42 month rule of the 8th King bearing in mind Daniel 12 indicating only a 45 day period between the end of the authority of the 8th king over Gods people, and the establishment of Gods kingdom. "11 (http://) “And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 (http://) “Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days! "

Or are you saying, the Anglo American world power gets a death stroke, but then revives after a period in the abbyss, (being in an abbyss sounds like a long time to me?), then, on its revival, it forces the world to worship the 7 headed wild beast that is the United Nations with itself a part of, and that this rule by the UN lasts 42 months?

This makes sense to me.

Babylon the Great holds the reins of these beasts and steers them in this direction.
At what point do you think the beast will turn on her and devistate her?

[watchman]

Hi Nambo

No, I did not intend to say that the death stroke will last for 3 1/2 years. Only that the death stroke commences a three and one half year period, after which the beast is destroyed. During that period the resurrected beast goes on a rampage. Reasonably the beast can only remain in the abyss for a short while, otherwise anarchy would ensue and civilization would simply unravel. I would suppose the beast will recover from its collapse in a matter of weeks or a few months at most.

Watchman

[billy]

Hi Nambo

i know this is a side point from the beast discussion - i had been thinking about the following scripture that you had brought up- and wondered what the wilderness was that the "woman" escapes too - the NWT's reference scripture to Rev 13:6 is Psalm 55:7 - which i have further down the page in red



Rev 13:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days



Psalm:55

Do give ear, O God, to my prayer;
And do not hide yourself from my request for favor.

2 Do pay attention to me and answer me.
I am driven restlessly about by my concern,
And I cannot but show disquietude,
3 Due to the voice of the enemy, because of the pressure of the wicked one.
For they keep dropping upon me what is hurtful,
And in anger they harbor animosity against me.

4 My very heart is in severe pain within me,
And the frights of death itself have fallen upon me.

5 Fear, yes, trembling itself enters into me,
And shuddering covers me.

6 And I keep saying: “O that I had wings as a dove has!
I would fly away and reside.

7 Look! I would go far away in flight;
I would lodge in the wilderness.—Se´lah—
8 I would hasten to a place of escape for me
From the rushing wind, from the tempest.”

9 Confuse, O Jehovah, divide their tongue,
For I have seen violence and disputing in the city.

10 Day and night they go round about it upon its walls;
And hurtfulness and trouble are within it.

11 Adversities are within it;
And from its public square oppression and deception have not moved away.

12 For it was not an enemy that proceeded to reproach me;
Otherwise I could put up with it.
It was not an intense hater of me that assumed great airs against me;
Otherwise I could conceal myself from him.

13 But it was you, a mortal man who was as my equal,
One familiar to me and my acquaintance,
14 Because we used to enjoy sweet intimacy together;
Into the house of God we used to walk with the throng.

15 Desolations [be] upon them!
Let them go down into She´ol alive;
For during their alien residence bad things have been within them.

16 As for me, to God I shall call out;
And Jehovah himself will save me.

17 Evening and morning and noontime I cannot but show concern and I moan,
And he hears my voice.

18 He will certainly redeem [and put] my soul in peace from the fight that is against me,
For in multitudes they have come to be against me.

19 God will hear and answer them,
Even He that is sitting [enthroned] as in the past—Se´lah—
Those with whom there are no changings
And who have not feared God.

what i find interesting is the whole chapter 55 explains what the woman wants to flee from - and that is the corruption in the city of Jerusalem and the enemies are within the city - not outside - so would the annointed members that are to be fed outside of the city, where the woman excapes too, be compared to the annointed being feed outside of the wto - in the wilderness? :Yahoo_33:

[Nambo]

Hi Nambo

i know this is a side point from the beast discussion - i had been thinking about the following scripture that you had brought up- and wondered what the wilderness was that the "woman" escapes too - the NWT's reference scripture to Rev 13:6 is Psalm 55:7 - which i have further down the page in red



Rev 13:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days



Psalm:55

Do give ear, O God, to my prayer;
And do not hide yourself from my request for favor.

2 Do pay attention to me and answer me.
I am driven restlessly about by my concern,
And I cannot but show disquietude,
3 Due to the voice of the enemy, because of the pressure of the wicked one.
For they keep dropping upon me what is hurtful,
And in anger they harbor animosity against me.

4 My very heart is in severe pain within me,
And the frights of death itself have fallen upon me.

5 Fear, yes, trembling itself enters into me,
And shuddering covers me.

6 And I keep saying: "O that I had wings as a dove has!
I would fly away and reside.

7 Look! I would go far away in flight;
I would lodge in the wilderness.—Se´lah—
8 I would hasten to a place of escape for me
From the rushing wind, from the tempest."

9 Confuse, O Jehovah, divide their tongue,
For I have seen violence and disputing in the city.

10 Day and night they go round about it upon its walls;
And hurtfulness and trouble are within it.

11 Adversities are within it;
And from its public square oppression and deception have not moved away.

12 For it was not an enemy that proceeded to reproach me;
Otherwise I could put up with it.
It was not an intense hater of me that assumed great airs against me;
Otherwise I could conceal myself from him.

13 But it was you, a mortal man who was as my equal,
One familiar to me and my acquaintance,
14 Because we used to enjoy sweet intimacy together;
Into the house of God we used to walk with the throng.

15 Desolations upon them!
Let them go down into She´ol alive;
For during their alien residence bad things have been within them.

16 As for me, to God I shall call out;
And Jehovah himself will save me.

17 Evening and morning and noontime I cannot but show concern and I moan,
And he hears my voice.

18 He will certainly redeem [and put] my soul in peace from the fight that is against me,
For in multitudes they have come to be against me.

19 God will hear and answer them,
Even He that is sitting [enthroned] as in the past—Se´lah—
Those with whom there are no changings
And who have not feared God.

what i find interesting is the whole chapter 55 explains what the woman wants to flee from - and that is the corruption in the city of Jerusalem and the enemies are within the city - not outside - so would the annointed members that are to be fed outside of the city, where the woman excapes too, be compared to the annointed being feed outside of the wto - in the wilderness? :Yahoo_33:

Thats a good thougt Billy and worthy of a thread of its own.
I would say the Woman is Jehovahs Heavenly organisation and that the 1260 days corresponds to the 1260 days or 42 months that the Holy Ones, that is, the Annointed here on Earth are given to the Wild Beast or to be trampled by the Nations for.
So wiether it indicates outside the WT or the whole of the WT itself being left to the mercies of the nations for 42 months?

[billy]

Hi Nambo - me again

"The only other beast I can think of that has been destroyed and that WILL come back in the form of the One World Order, was the prewvious incarnation of this particular beast in the form of Nimrods Babylon? "


what about Iran - formally Persia - "Babylon the Great" has certainly got her reins over controlling this country

As someone said on another post - there are many contenders waiting in line wanting to rule the world!

[Steadfast]

Very interesting discussion, brothers. :)

Just to add to the mix:

The identity of the two wild beasts of Revelation 13 is critical.

Revelation 19:20 says: 'And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with fire and sulphur.'

If the US goes out of existence at the beginning of the tribulation at the hands of the king of the north, but is also the false prophet mentioned at Revelation 13:11, how does the US exist as the false prophet to be destroyed by Christ at the end of the tribulation as mentioned above?

Love, :Love:

Steadfast

[Jeshurun]

STEADFAST IS BACK!!!!

OH WHAT A BEAUTIFUL DAY!!!!