Amazing Flip Flop

[Steadfast]

The following letter is an absolutely amazing flip-flop considering some of the comments made in the past by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society concerning the United Nations. It also explains why the Gilead graduates are routinely given a tour of the United Nations before their graduation:

"...Jehovah's witnesses recognize the United Nations as disgusting to God..." (The Watchtower 3/1/67 p. 157)

"...'the disgusting thing that causes desolation'...is the United Nations." (Kingdom Ministry 8/94 p. 5-6)

"[The UN] is really a 'conspiracy,' yes, a conspiracy against the precious interests of God's Kingdom by Christ." (The Watchtower 12/15/83 p. 22)

"The UN is actually a blasphemous counterfeit of God's Messianic Kingdom by his Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ" (Revelation book p. 248-51)

"The UN is actually a worldly confederacy against Jehovah God and his dedicated Witnesses on earth. (The Watchtower 9/1/87 p. 20)

"[The UN is] 'a scarlet-colored wild beast' that is the image of Satan's bloodstained political system." (Mankind's Search for God p. 370)

"There it is, the United Nations, acting in defiance of the Prince of Peace, earth's rightful Ruler, the Lord Jesus Christ..." (The Watchtower 1/15/77 p. 44)

"...anti-Christ schemes for peace such as the organization of the United Nations." (The Watchtower 8/1/56 p. 462-3)

"[The UN serves] as a mouthpiece for satanic propaganda." (The Watchtower 6/15/61 p. 360)

"Satan has his signs and wonders, foremost of which is the United Nations organization with its headquarters in New York City." (The Watchtower 3/1/59 p. 150)

"This substitute, the product of Satan's jealousy, which is a disgusting thing in God's sight, which arouses resentment in Jehovah God, which desolates the people's faith in God's kingdom and which will eventually cause their destruction, is none other than that scheme of modern man, a world association of nations, first making its appearance as the League of Nations and then as the United Nations organization." (The Watchtower 12/1/52 p. 714)


<div align="center"> </div>
<div align="center">Christian Congregation of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses</div>
<div align="center">September 20, 2005
</div><div align="center"> </div>
Dear Brother _______

We are pleased to reply to your letter of August 14, written subsequent to your letter of June 13, 2005, wherein you express your concerns about the Watch Tower Society&#39;s registration for a few years with the United Nation&#39;s Department of Public Information (DPI) as a "nongovernmental organization" (NGO).

As you know, information was shared with the body of elders of your congregation, in response to a request from your circuit overseer, to be used in clarifying matters pertaining to this registration, since it had come up for discussion during his visit. We now have your letter and frankly, Brother _____, we are quite disappointed to observe the very critical tone of your letter, especially for one who has been associated with Jehovah&#39;s organization for so many years and who has had opportunity to see how Jehovah has so richly blessed his people. It saddens us to see you begin to draw away from the Christian congregation because you have allowed unfounded doubts to build up in your mind so strongly that you begin to accuse your brothers here at headquarters of unfaithfulness and dishonestly.

Your desire that Jehovah&#39;s organization not become involved in the political affairs of this world is certainly commendable. God&#39;s Word recognizes that the whole world lies in the power of Satan. (1 John 5:19) Governments of men have failed terribly, being appropriately pictures as unruly beasts in the Bible, particularly in the books of Daniel and Revelation. Christians cannot become a part of the old world around them, but Jesus recognized that they would still be living in the midst of this world and would have to deal with it in various ways as it exists and until Jehovah takes it away. (John 17:15, 16) Jehovah has allowed human governments to exist to provide a measure of stability in the world. This has permitted Christians to carry on their activities without the burden of complete lawlessness. In his Word, Jehovah gives us wise and discreet advice on how we can live in the world while at the same time not become a part of it. Jesus reflected the proper balance in directing that we pay "Caesar&#39;s things to Caesar, but God&#39;s things to God." (Matthew 22:21) The apostle Paul referred to human governments as the "superior authorities" at Romans 13:1-7, even stating that "the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God." He further describes them as "the arrangement of God" and "God"s minister to you for your good." Paul even tells Christians to pray "concerning kings and all those who are in high station: in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness. This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God." —1 Timothy 2:1-3.

Since the United Nations is a major political "authority" in the world today, and "there is no authority except by God," then we must view this organization as God views it–as a "wild beast" in prophecy, yet as a government like all the others that "stand placed in their relative positions" by Him. All these human governments, including the United Nations, provide human services for which taxes are paid, directly or indirectly, including such things as disease control, agricultural assistance, disaster and famine relief, and many others. Our brothers, especially in economically impoverished lands, benefit from many of these services. Some of our brothers are government employees, even of the United Nations, :icon_eek: who provide such human benefits to others without violating their Christian neutrality. Thus, it is not improper or inappropriate to recognize that the United Nations does some commendable things in behalf of the people and to improve conditions on earth, as do other existing governments who are at the same time portrayed in the Bible as &#39;beasts&#39; and part of Satan&#39;s world.

So, Brother ____, our zeal for protecting Jehovah&#39;s good name and organization must be kept in balance with what the Scriptures teach Christians as to the attitude they should have toward the governments of this world that Jehovah allows to exist for a time. We cooperate with and benefit from such arrangements. That brings us to your concern. When looked at objectively, we were merely making use of the library maintained by the United Nations as a source of information, particularly as to its activities in the world, as articles were written for our publications. While acknowledging its accomplishments, we also recognize what governments of men, including the United Nations, are unable to do, things that only God&#39;s Kingdom will be able to do for mankind. An example of this balanced Scriptural approach is reflected in the series of articles on human rights that appeared in the November 22, 1998, issue of Awake!

Some factual information as to what actually occurred may be helpful to you. Since NGOs that associate with the United Nation&#39;s Department of Public Information (DPI) are clearly informed on the UN&#39;s Web site that "association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system," we did not join nor became part of the United Nations any more than those who use a city, state, or federal library become part of that branch of government because they register with the library to use their facilities. For example, the Library of Congress is a federal institution of the United States government. Jehovah&#39;s people make use of this facility, going through proper procedure to do so. Of course, as you may understand, "NGO" is merely an acronym referring to any organization that is not part of a government, whether it is associated with the United Nations or not. In this case, therefore, the question really relates to contacts with the UN&#39;s Department of Public Information as an NGO, without presuming that the term "NGO" automatically means becoming part of the UN. Other NGOs associate with various UN agencies and become, as the material you sent states, "partners in &#39;the process of deliberation and policy formation&#39; as well as in &#39;the execution of policies.&#39;" That has never been the case with the Watch Tower Society or Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses.

Personnel of our writing staff had been using the United Nations&#39; library facilities for many years prior to 1991 to access their internationally respected research material available on health, ecological, and social problems for use in our publications. But in 1991, a different person controlling admission refused entry of our researcher to a section of the department where information was dispensed to the media and to which he previously had access. Another employee told him that full access could be gained by registering with the DPI. Although we do not dispute the UN&#39;s current statement that registering as an NGO with the DPI was not required to gan general admission, what actually happened, nevertheless, would understandably need to be take into consideration.

We certainly would have preferred to use the DPI facilities as in the past without additional paperwork. The application submitted to the DPI that we have on file contains no statements that conflict with our Christian beliefs. And we continued doing the same as we had been doing for years–using their library system and quoting the United Nations or its agencies as a source in our publications. Of course, as we have explained to others who have inquired about this matter, the criteria for association with the DPI, published apart from the application itself, contains some language that we cannot subscribe to, and when we realized this, we withdrew our registration in 2001. We are grateful that this was called to our attention.

The following was stated in a letter of October 18, 2001, to Mr. Paul Hoeffel, Chief of the NGO Section of the DPI, in asking that registration of the Watch Tower Society be withdrawn: "Our involvement as an NGO has been limited to obtaining information from your libraries. However, we have decided to withdraw our registration so as to remove any implication that our being recognized by the United Nations as an NGO goes beyond our original purpose or that Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses are involved in activities that are inconsistent with their own teachings." In that same letter, it was also stated: "Even as we recognize the genuine efforts of the United Nations to resolve the major issues confronting mankind, as a religious tenet Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses have always taught that the final and permanent answer to the formidable problems will come only through the establishment of God&#39;s Kingdom. This does not mean that Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses in any way work to undermine efforts of the United Nations. Our view was clearly set forth on page seven of the October 1, 1995, issue of The Watchtower, a copy of which is enclosed."

Any reader of our publications can tell that there has been no change in our view of the UN or what we have published about its role in Bible prophecy over the years since 1991 merely by checking the references citied in current Watch Tower Publications Indexes under the subject "United Nations" and headings and (subheadings) such as "Destruction of Religion." "Failure" ("Inadequacy of UN"), "Religious Support," and "Symbolic Representation" ("Disgusting Thing"; "Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast"). Of course, some articles are especially designed for the public on global issues, such as world peace and the rights of children around the world, and cannot be treated properly without considering the role of the UN. Careful readers can see that these articles always tactfully show how, despite all good intentions, the UN is almost helpless to deal with such issues in a meaningful way–thus showing that God&#39;s Kingdom is the real answer to mankind&#39;s problems. Or, to pique curiosity and further discussion, an article may indicate that the UN will soon play a powerful role in the fulfillment of God&#39;s purpose.—Revelation 17:16, 17.

We are glad to share with you what actually occurred, as well as Bible principles that provide a balanced understanding of the Christian view of the world&#39;s governments, including the United Nations. Clearly there is no basis for concluding from what transpired that the Watch Tower Society (or Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses) has ever joined the United Nations or any other government. No one at headquarters has acted disloyally or deceitfully in handling matters. With hindsight, we recognize that some things could have been done with greater scrutiny. If one is looking for evidence that all of Jehovah&#39;s people, including those at headquarters, are imperfect and may not always consider matters as carefully as they should before acting, despite their best intentions, then we quickly acknowledge that such evidence is not hard to find.

We trust the above comments will be helpful to you. Certainly there is no basis for the strong assertions that you have made in your letters. It is just such issues based on distorted information that the Adversary, Satan the Devil, is attempting to use in undermining the fail of Jehovah&#39;s people and to cause them to lose confidence in the organization He is using to carry forward true worship in the earth today. (See in this regard the article "Guard Against Deception," in the February 15, 2004, issue of The Watchtower.) We urge you, Brother Jones, not to fall victim to Satan&#39;s subtle &#39;machinations." (Ephesians 6:10-12) Do not let him rob you of the spiritual heritage Jehovah has for those who prove loyal and faithful to him and who continue to love the brotherhood. You have served Jehovah for many years, done much good work in the congregations, and have helped many to come to know Jehovah, including members of your family. What you do now will affect not only your future service to Jehovah but could also have an influence on others, especially on members of your family. So, rather than remain stumbled and disgruntled, perhaps by continuing to dwell on these distorted claims of opposers that only serve to give you a false premise for not returning to happy association with Jehovah&#39;s people, we encourage you to pray earnestly and humbly to Jehovah to help you put matters again in proper perspective. Our prayers are that Jehovah will bless your sincere desire to serve and please him, and to continue walking with his people on the narrow road that leads to everlasting life in his new system.—Matthew 7:13:14.

We are sending a copy of this letter to the body of elders so they will know what we have written to you on this matter. We are confident that these brothers, many of whom you know well, love you and want the very best for you. Respond to their loving counsel in the spirit of Galatians 6:1.

We take this occasion to send an expression of our warm Christian love and greetings to you and your family.

Your brothers in Jehovah&#39;s service,

Christian Congregation of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses

[Nash]

Hi Steadfast,

How&#39;s it going? Nice to see you, sister.

I&#39;ve seen this letter before. What I found particularly discouraging was the fact that the WTS deflected the situation away from themselves, so to speak, and made it look like the letter-writer was in error and needed counsel. This doesn&#39;t surprise me at all, since this is a tactic which is often used to suppress those who question things. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is a form of emotional and mental abuse. This type of treatment of individuals who question is rampant in the organization I would think, simply from reading all of the experiences on various discussion boards.

I remember once I had told a smartass elder that I was correcting him. He was in error about a certain issue and I was making a brash attempt to state the truth. He turned around and said to me with this puzzled-with-arrogance look on his face: "You are correcting us?" I guess that since I didn&#39;t have special privileges at that time I was not to be taken seriously.

Interestingly, at a later time, this elder and the circuit overseer were discussing a bible subject. When the circuit overseer told this same elder that the elder was "incorrect," this elder was pretty much silent.

Conclusion: Generally, I notice that elders do not take counsel or discipline from the publishers. The elders must view the publishers as amhaarets.

Nash

[Viking]

and what happend to brother Jones?

Did he get trouble with the elders?

Is he still within the congreagation or have they pushed him out?

Viking

[Nambo]

Surely there is a difference between the average Human Government that Jehovah allows due to its upholding various laws and the Final Satanic manifestation of an counterfiet Kingdom over the earth that is standing in a Holy place and that will plant its palatial tents between Jehovah and his people?
And surely as well, one of the purposes of the society is to warn the world about not being decieved into worshipping this beast and having thier names erased from the book of life, it IS more than the average Human administration Jehovah allows.

I wonder what the situation would have been like in Nazi Germany if the current Governing body was incharge?
Would they have critised Brothers who stood up against Nazism telling them they where disobying Jehovah by standing against Human Governmnets he allows?

This now looks like an insult to the Brothers that lost thier lives in Nazi Germany.

[SlaveForJah]

Surely there is a difference between the average Human Government that Jehovah allows due to its upholding various laws and the Final Satanic manifestation of an counterfiet Kingdom over the earth that is standing in a Holy place and that will plant its palatial tents between Jehovah and his people?
And surely as well, one of the purposes of the society is to warn the world about not being decieved into worshipping this beast and having thier names erased from the book of life, it IS more than the average Human administration Jehovah allows.

I wonder what the situation would have been like in Nazi Germany if the current Governing body was incharge?
Would they have critised Brothers who stood up against Nazism telling them they where disobying Jehovah by standing against Human Governmnets he allows?

This now looks like an insult to the Brothers that lost thier lives in Nazi Germany.[/b]

Well stated, Nambo.

Perhaps the loss of contact between the Brothers in Germany and the leadership in New York has worked out for our benefit. By the modern-day examples of our German brothers, we can gain strength by imitating their faith, as they had opportunity to recant and go free - a provision that was made for no other groups incarcerated in the concentration camps - and yet they, in the main, put their faith in the saving power of Jehovah. This should serve to bolster all our faith in the future. Unfortunately, if the recent actions from Brooklyn are any indication, we may not have much in the way of help from our Organization when many are once again threatened with life and limb by the 8th king. But isn&#39;t that the point...to place our faith, not in men, nor in an organization, nor in the "ark" of the Kingdom Halls, but unwaveringly in Jehovah?

These flip flops are abundant, but they can never remove from us our obligations to love Jehovah and our neighbor. And we must always live up to the vow which we have made to serve our Creator whole-souled. May we all strive to serve Jehovah with a view to imitating the faith of Christ.

Agape

SlaveForJah

[stayawake]

Thank you Steadfast for the research from the WT publications on the UN.{ quote }
"...&#39;the disgusting thing that causes desolation&#39;...is the United Nations." (Kingdom Ministry 8/94 p. 5-6)

"[The UN] is really a &#39;conspiracy,&#39; yes, a conspiracy against the precious interests of God&#39;s Kingdom by Christ." (The Watchtower 12/15/83 p. 22) {quote}

I have a feeling that once the doors are closed 2008 from the public having the Study WT magazine
those inside will hear less if anything about how disqusting the thing that causes disolation really is. (UN )

We heard ,we listened, we searched ,we were convinced that there was a adultress ten year affair with the WT and the UN. James 4:4

This is a fact the WT is trying to lay down and bury.
The one way for the WT to do this is not mention it anymore,hoping the younger generation won&#39;t ever reconize this BETRAYAL>

I will also venture to say that the disgusting thing that causes disolation will be put to rest in the upcoming WT studies
We seen it. We fled.

Of course I only speak for those that see ,what I see.
love stayawake

[watchman]

The Society&#39;s response to the NGO situation is in some respects more evil then the original sin they committed. How much better it would be for them to simply acknowledge their error and ask for the brotherhood to forgive them. Everybody makes a false step, right? Look at King David and Peter. But there is not even a hint of humility or contrition in the Watchtower&#39;s response. Instead of humbly acknowledging that they stupidly set a stumbling block before Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, they rebuke a longstanding brother and elder for his attitude. How disgusting and perverse. The root of the matter is that the Society demands to be worshipped and how dare anyone question their integrity and honesty. As regards the Watchtower&#39;s response let&#39;s break it down:




The Watchtower says: Since the United Nations is a major political "authority" in the world today, and "there is no authority except by God," then we must view this organization as God views it–as a "wild beast" in prophecy, yet as a government like all the others that "stand placed in their relative positions" by Him. All these human governments, including the United Nations, provide human services for which taxes are paid, directly or indirectly, including such things as disease control, agricultural assistance, disaster and famine relief, and many others. Our brothers, especially in economically impoverished lands, benefit from many of these services. Some of our brothers are government employees, even of the United Nations, who provide such human benefits to others without violating their Christian neutrality. Thus, it is not improper or inappropriate to recognize that the United Nations does some commendable things in behalf of the people and to improve conditions on earth, as do other existing governments who are at the same time portrayed in the Bible as &#39;beasts&#39; and part of Satan&#39;s world.

This is basically a straw man argument. The United Nations does not require all NGOs to do their bidding. There was no law that required the Society to register with the UN. Being an associate NGO is a privilege that is extended only to NGOs that are qualified and meet the criteria laid down by the United Nations Department of Public Information. What the Watchtower did in behalf of the United Nations went far beyond giving Caesar&#39;s things to Caesar. So what if the UN has extended humanitarian aid to impoverished JW&#39;s in Africa? Ancient Israel often sought and received aid from surrounding nations and look where that got them.


Watchtower says: So, Brother ____, our zeal for protecting Jehovah&#39;s good name and organization must be kept in balance with what the Scriptures teach Christians as to the attitude they should have toward the governments of this world that Jehovah allows to exist for a time. We cooperate with and benefit from such arrangements.


But at what cost? 1^st century Christians choose to die in the arena rather than offer up so much as a mere pinch of incense on the altar to Cesar. In modern times Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses in Germany went to the ovens because they refused to support Hitler. Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses in Malawi lost their homes and businesses, the sisters were raped and many of the brothers were even murdered because they would not purchase a 25 cent ID card that identified them with the ruling political party. Subjection to the superior authorities is one thing, but giving God&#39;s things to Caesar is quite another, which is what the Society has done by using literature devoted to announcing God&#39;s kingdom to also carry out an effective information campaign in behalf of what they acknowledge to be Satan&#39;s political beast. Can we imagine the apostle Paul singing the praises of the Roman Empire in his ministry and using his authority as an apostle to inform the Galatians, Ephesians, Thessalonians, etc, about Cesar&#39;s wonderful program&#39;s to better the Empire?


The Society says: That brings us to your concern. When looked at objectively, we were merely making use of the library maintained by the United Nations as a source of information, particularly as to its activities in the world, as articles were written for our publications. While acknowledging its accomplishments, we also recognize what governments of men, including the United Nations, are unable to do, things that only God&#39;s Kingdom will be able to do for mankind. An example of this balanced Scriptural approach is reflected in the series of articles on human rights that appeared in the November 22, 1998, issue of Awake!


This is true. The Watchtower obviously was making use of the UN&#39;s library facility. Yet, as everyone familiar with the facts knows it was not necessary for the Watchtower to become an associate NGO in order to use those facilities. The UN&#39;s own head librarian has stated that any qualified researcher was allowed access to the library before 9-11. Since then only NGO&#39;s working with the UN are allowed access. So, there was absolutely no reason, other than seeking political favor with the UN, for the Watchtower to register as an NGO.


The real question is why? Why was it so important for the avowedly "politically neutral" Watchtower to have access to the UN library in the first place? The WT is supposed to be a Bible society. The reason is because they WT used its vast publishing resources to carry out an information campaign on behalf of the UN, which it undeniably did. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or a liar.


As regards the special Awake article of November 22, 1998, the Watchtower failed to inform the brother that the DPI specifically asked all affiliated NGOs to talk up the 50^th anniversary of the signing of the UN&#39;s human rights document. That is exactly what the WT did. The Awake article is even listed on the UN&#39;s website, obviously as an example of the good work done by a cooperative NGO. And of course, the numerous essays I have written on the topic show the full extent that Bethel has gone to cooperate with the United Nations.


The WT says: Some factual information as to what actually occurred may be helpful to you. Since NGOs that associate with the United Nation&#39;s Department of Public Information (DPI) are clearly informed on the UN&#39;s Web site that "association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system," we did not join nor became part of the United Nations any more than those who use a city, state, or federal library become part of that branch of government because they register with the library to use their facilities.


The WT is intentionally obfuscating the issue. No one is saying that NGOs are incorporated into the UN&#39;s governing system. That is just plain stupid. NGO&#39;s are just that – non government organizations. If they were part of the UN then they would be governing organizations. The Society is merely taking advantage of JW&#39;s ignorance on these matters. The Society brazenly quotes from the UN&#39;s website and on that very page the criteria and requirements for NGOs are clearly spelled out. Anyone who wants to know the truth merely has to read the UN&#39;s web page for themselves.


The WT says: For example, the Library of Congress is a federal institution of the United States government. Jehovah&#39;s people make use of this facility, going through proper procedure to do so. Of course, as you may understand, "NGO" is merely an acronym referring to any organization that is not part of a government, whether it is associated with the United Nations or not. In this case, therefore, the question really relates to contacts with the UN&#39;s Department of Public Information as an NGO, without presuming that the term "NGO" automatically means becoming part of the UN. Other NGOs associate with various UN agencies and become, as the material you sent states, "partners in &#39;the process of deliberation and policy formation&#39; as well as in &#39;the execution of policies.&#39;" That has never been the case with the Watch Tower Society or Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses.


Again, the WT is playing upon the ignorance of JW&#39;s. There are indeed two classifications of NGOs. The upper echelon enjoys what is called "Consultant Status." That is what the WT is referring to. The WT did not have "consultant status." The lower level of NGOs has what is called "associate status." They are not involved in policy formation. However, all associate level NGO&#39;s are required to carry out an information campaign in behalf of the UN. And that is what the WT did. In fact, NGO&#39;s that fail to meet the UN&#39;s criteria for association are de-listed from the DPI&#39;s registry of associate NGO&#39;s. But alas, the WT was not de-listed because it failed to live up to the UN&#39;s requirements.

The Watchtower says: Personnel of our writing staff had been using the United Nations&#39; library facilities for many years prior to 1991 to access their internationally respected research material available on health, ecological, and social problems for use in our publications. But in 1991, a different person controlling admission refused entry of our researcher to a section of the department where information was dispensed to the media and to which he previously had access. Another employee told him that full access could be gained by registering with the DPI. Although we do not dispute the UN&#39;s current statement that registering as an NGO with the DPI was not required to gain general admission, what actually happened, nevertheless, would understandably need to be take into consideration.

This is sheer nonsense. The Watchtower would have us believe that being affiliated with the UN is the most trivial thing. They boast of being the faithful and discreet slave and yet they are asking us to believe that they casually became associated with the UN without the slightest knowledge of what was involved in being an associated NGO. What is even more incredible is that the Society is seemly so obsessed with informing their readership about the UN, as they say, making full use of its vast information repository, and yet Bethel claims to be ignorant regarding the very purpose of NGOs.

The fact is, the WT was associated with the UN for 10 years. It wrote dozens of articles praising the UN. Virtually every Awake magazine had some positive reference to the UN or one of its myriad of agencies. The WT meet the criteria imposed upon NGO&#39;s even though they lyingly claim that no such criteria were imposed upon them.

The good news is that Jehovah gets the last word in this matter and we may be sure that he will not be bamboozled by the Society&#39;s spin miesters.

Watchman

[James]

The real question is why? Why was it so important for the avowedly "politically neutral" Watchtower to have access to the UN library in the first place? The WT is supposed to be a Bible society. The reason is because they WT used its vast publishing resources to carry out an information campaign on behalf of the UN, which it undeniably did. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or a liar.
Watchman[/b]

Watchman,

That explains what the UN got out of the &#39;affair&#39;, but if the WT didn&#39;t NEED to be an NGO to access the library, what benefits did they receive?

That response from the WT to the brother was obviously deceptive and thinly-veiled, but if it wasn&#39;t for a library pass, what have they concealed and does anyone(besides the GB) know the REAL reason?

Regards,
James

[watchman]

Hi James, apparently there were very few benefits the WT recieved. The only thing that has come to light so far is that the WT got the use of some UN aircraft to carry out a relief operation. http://e-watchman.com/essays/watchtower-un...ws-part-12.html (http://e-watchman.com/essays/watchtower-united-nations-strange-bedfellows-part-12.html)

Other than that the WT pretty much prostituted itself and paid the hire of her client to boot. That doesn&#39;t make any sense but that is, not coincidently, exactly the way Jehovah describes Israel&#39;s prostitution, as it says at Ezekiel 16:34-36 -- "To all prostitutes they are accustomed to give a present, but you—you have given your presents to all those passionately loving you, and you offer a bribe to them to come in to you from all around in your acts of prostitution. And in your case the opposite thing takes place from that of other women in your acts of prostitution, and after your style no prostitution has been committed, even in your giving hire when no hire has been given to you, and so it occurs in the opposite way."

watchman

[Steadfast]

&#39;The real question is why? Why was it so important for the avowedly "politically neutral" Watchtower to have access to the UN library in the first place?&#39;

Might this be the explanation:

Matthew 7:21-23 – Jesus speaking: &#39;Not everyone saying to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" And yet I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness."&#39;

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 – Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it (return of Christ and the first resurrection) will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called &#39;god&#39; or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publically showing himself to be a god.

Jesus also said:

Revelation 2:9 – I know your tribulation and poverty – but you are rich – and the blasphemy by those who say they themselves are Jews, and yet they are not but are a synagogue of Satan.

It seems very obvious at this point in time, that the man of lawlessness has completely taken over and is &#39;running the show&#39;.

Love,

Steadfast

[Nash]

Is it possible that the WTS got a little bit of clout out of the relationship with the UN? From reading what many have had to say on this matter, could it be that the WTS became an NGO to further the preaching work in lands where otherwise they might have had a harder time were it not for their NGO status?

This probably wouldn&#39;t be the first time that the Society has made bad judgments when it comes to furthering the preaching work. In fact, it seems entirely plausible to me, since theoretically, the UN would have its information disseminated by the WTS, while the WTS would have an easier time (at least in ther minds) in the preaching work.

Does this make any sense?

Nash

[Jeshurun]

It seems to me that it&#39;s beginning to shape up this way:

The New World Order is all about domination by an elite "governing body".

It&#39;s about imposing serfdom on the masses, slavery if you will.

It&#39;s about obedience, mind-control, and suppression of free thought.

It&#39;s about a one-world-government.

2 Thess. 2 indicates that the "Man of Lawlessness" (disregard for God&#39;s laws, setting himself up as "God") sits down in the Temple of the True God.

I can&#39;t confirm this but I&#39;ve read where the FBI keeps thousands of files on the WTS and it&#39;s membership.

Seems to me there are member(s) of the Governing Body who are secret proponents of Satan&#39;s counterfeit version of Jehovah&#39;s eternal Kingdom.

Perhaps those who recognize the "disgusting thing standing in the holy place" and don&#39;t heed Jesus warning to "flee Jerusalem" will follow the evil slave, obeying the NWO which may include taking the mark.

According to all the prophecies, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that the Watchtower brand of religion is the prototype of what the NWO leaders are looking for. Perhaps they will twist the scriptures in such a way as to subsitute the Antichrist for the Christ. Perhaps a leader from Bethel is set up as the world&#39;s "spiritual" leader. I can&#39;t see any other way that any JW would go for it.

[Viking]

hi Jesh,

I understand that they in the tower work with the same tools like the Society of Jesus. This army of the black pope works with spreading fear, mistrust, deceiving and absolute obedience.
The GB demands from the single JWs that they dont study the bible for themselves but only use what the Slave has prepared. That is not different from the Catholic church in the past. They forbade even to read the Bible.
And when we now study the Revelation book - I am missing further comments from Robert King - it is disgustable to read how they explain the 7 sounds of the trumpets. Their terminology says, it all has happened already. Yet I think that is something of the near future.

It was the WTS that formed in the 50ies the expressed "New World Society", an idea that seems to be stolen from the illuminaty and their new world order.

JWs do practice circumstances of the NWO: only accepting everything that comes from above - from the WTS,
no questioning, no better education. That reminded me to Hitlers behavior against the polish people: only attending school for 4 years and counting up to 1000. not to much Intelligencia. The nazis killed at last all Polish teachers, academics and studied people like clerics.

And when a JW has a degree of a university - watch how they treat him. IN most congregations such a brother has only a low chance to be ordered to be ministerial servant or elder.

We will see what the near future will bring. I heard that on the NY stock exchange someone baught some 245,000 put options for the price of 1 billion Dollar. That expires on September 21st. It includes that the stocks will sink for more than 30 %. and when that takes place he gets back 2 billion dollars. An Insider?
you can read about at globalresearch. today is 9.18.2007, that is 3 times 9 = 27 = 9. maybe something explained in the caballah.

may god bless those who stay loyal to him and only to him and not to any corrupt organisation.

Alone how they treated Paul Balzereit from 1933 to 1998 as traitor and ram for Rutherford in retard to the judges letter to Adolf is something that teaches me to vomit. Balzereit died about in 1960 while he was demolished to his contemporaries as arrogant, cynical, wicked man who was eager on money and honor - he did nothing more demand than the judge. But he was the saddle who was beaten, not the donkey. The donkey died in great honor and is kept in glory, not regarding his early utterances that he got visits from angels who brought him messages from god. pure spiritism.

it seems it is no question for the WTS what is taught, but by whom it is taught.

the millstones are waiting for those who dont repent their behavior and confess publicly their failing.

[Steadfast]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Alberto Rivera, an ex-Jesuit who made it his business to expose the Jesuit treachery in our day, confirms our worst suspicions.

In his writings, he tells that the focus of the Jesuits today is to infiltrate all religious organizations that oppose the Roman Catholic Church and destroy them from within. He even describes exactly how he was instructed to accomplish it.

Rivera names Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses by name as being a target of this process.

Has the pagan holy Roman empire gone away? Absolutely not. It will finish the work it began in the first century.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the United Nations is the brainchild of the Jesuits. When we see this, we can understand why the Vatican is the only religio-politico organization to hold a seat in it.

Love,

Steadfast

[Viking]

do you have a link to post me, steadfasdt?

thank you very much,

I see that my suspicions have reason

cordially

vikin

[Steadfast]

Dear Brother Viking,

I am sending you a link via IM. If anyone else would like the link, please feel free to contact me.

Love,

Steadfast

[Jinnvisible]

That explains what the UN got out of the &#39;affair&#39;, but if the WT didn&#39;t NEED to be an NGO to access the library, what benefits did they receive?

That response from the WT to the brother was obviously deceptive and thinly-veiled, but if it wasn&#39;t for a library pass, what have they concealed and does anyone(besides the GB) know the REAL reason Regards,
James[/b]

If your thoughts all day are `I am the faithfull and the descreet`, why would you stop to consider your steps at all?</span></div>
</span>

[James]

The U.N. Has a similar framework in many ways to the WTBTS both global organisations, both seeking day to day updates on national issues that transpire. Especially the society rely`s on up to date information, to address touch issues in the publications.

Globalism, Terrorism, Ethnic cleansing, Environment.

All of these topics and more have been addressed in the literature and it is a benefit for the `ministry` which has become almost entirely based on magazine publishing that the material helps peole connect what is going on in the world today with the bible.
[/b]

Hi Jinnvisible,

I think you have an excellent point there. As brother King has written in his essay
Who is blind as the servant of Jehovah (http://e-watchman.com/essays/watchtower-blind-servant.html)

The GB had no insight, no channel from the Holy Spirit, and therefore were walking in darkness. Their 1914 &#39;vision&#39; becoming harder and harder to explain as &#39;this generation&#39; has mostly fallen asleep in death.

The GB lost focus of the Kingdom and sought to discern &#39;the signs of the times&#39; by turning to the &#39;world&#39; for insight!

I do not know for how long before prostituting themselves by becoming an NGO that they sought out the U.N.&#39;s library, but obviously they lost Jehovahs&#39; favor before they became an NGO.

My view, which is hard to reconcile sometimes, is that Jehovah still shows favor to JWs&#39; even as this &#39;error of operation&#39; goes forth.

May Jehovahs&#39; Spirit be with us.

James

[Sketch]

If you all have not heard (or read), there is a pretty big scandal (http://news.aol.com/story/ar/_a/scandal-brews-at-oral-roberts-university/20071006124309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001) brewing at Oral Roberts University... this got me to thinking... if the mainstream media is taking this and running... why haven&#39;t they jumped on the WTS for their misdeeds? is it beause "they" still see the WTS as a cult, or less significant due to the amount of members/followers/etc... It seems that the WTS makes more money that ORU, but apparently, thats of no concern...

any ideas?

[stayawake]

What I understand is the WT is willing to pay a big Chunk $$$ in "Gag" orders so it won&#39;t hit the Fan.

The settlements they have paid out soo far are all secret, there fore making them seem clean and forgotten.

Take notice some of their propertys in NY went into sales a few months back.

[Molly]

What I understand is the WT is willing to pay a big Chunk $$$ in "Gag" orders so it won&#39;t hit the Fan.

The settlements they have paid out soo far are all secret, there fore making them seem clean and forgotten.

Take notice some of their propertys in NY went into sales a few months back.[/b]

Good day to you, Stayawake-

One wonders why there is no outcry for the organization to explain where the money to pay for the gag orders is coming from. If they are spending donations on these, don&#39;t those who are sending thier nickels and dimes to the organization have the right to know the truth. Someone should be demanding answers. Wouldn&#39;t that be a hoot to hear their response! We should demand a transparent organization! I keep remembering that Kingdom News from a year ago with the clergy/pedophile message.

Molly

[James]

<div class='quotemain'>What I understand is the WT is willing to pay a big Chunk $$ in "Gag" orders so it won&#39;t hit the Fan.

The settlements they have paid out soo far are all secret, there fore making them seem clean and forgotten.

Take notice some of their propertys in NY went into sales a few months back.[/b]

Good day to you, Stayawake-

One wonders why there is no outcry for the organization to explain where the money to pay for the gag orders is coming from. If they are spending donations on these, don&#39;t those who are sending thier nickels and dimes to the organization have the right to know the truth. Someone should be demanding answers. Wouldn&#39;t that be a hoot to hear their response! We should demand a transparent organization! I keep remembering that Kingdom News from a year ago with the clergy/pedophile message.

Molly
[/b][/quote]

Hi Molly and Stayawake,

Well, by all guesstimates, the WTS takes in many, many millions of $ every year and assuming the GB doesn&#39;t put it under their mattresses ha ha ha, I would think they earn a handsome chunk of change from interest and investments.
Just a thought...


Christian love,
James

[arimatthewdavies]

dear brothers sisters, im just now reading all the horror storys about internal afairs,if unclean conduct is truely going on and im not agreeing that it is or is not,but here is how to fix it without rebellion. its called a hunger strike refuse to eat the food.but continue wittnessesing with your bible and do not forsake fellowship, this will quickley force correction when the money dwindles, change your method of ministry to verbal door to door confesion of jesus christ instead of litterature publication,you do not have to publish literature to serve jehovah! neither is it your job to berate the cook keep praying to jehovah he will answer.