When Are The Last Days?

[Alex]

The expression 'last days' as we know, is clearly stated at 2 Timothy 3:1, and the Apostle Paul describes the social conditions which would be an evident characteristic of the 'last days'.

Jehovah's Witnesses are taught the 'last days' and the 'time of the end' basically refer to the same time period, i.e. from 1914 onwards when Christ was supposedly crowned King in heaven, and Satan's world entered its 'last days'.

It seems to me though, for most of JW's it has become a cliche to describe our current period as the 'last days'. Many list the various 'bad' things happening in the world as evidence of the 'last days', yet when you consider world history, since the Roman Empire onwards, there have been religious groups declaring the 'last days' as evidence for their correct understanding of Bible prophecy. This reached a frenzy during the 18th and 19th centuries with Adventist individuals and groups all desiring the 'last days' to be in their lifetime, yet here we are still in 2007.

I am not saying that there could be no 'last days', I am not challenging the Bible's prophecy about such, but how are we really to understand the Apostle's words written to Timothy during the early days of Christianity and the gradual decline of the Roman Empire, the 'last days' of the Roman Empire?

For the past 35 years I have been taught we are in the 'last days', 'the end is near' and 'conditions have never been so bad', but I still cannot help but wonder, I feel there have been really bad events and years in the past even prior to 1914 which in a way must have felt like the 'last days' for people experiencing such back then. We have to recognise communications and media was very limited, therefore news reports to the general public could take up to two weeks - one month to be considered, by which time such 'bad' news was old news. In contrast we have immediate access to all news around the world at the touch of a button, hence wars, troubles, conflicts and disagreements flood into our homes in a matter of seconds.

I note on the forum there is a section for posts entitled 'Living in the Last Days', but since we have reservations about accepting the Watchtower's interpretation of the prophetic significance of 1914, when do the 'last days' really begin? Have they started, or is it a future time period?

Just seeking confirmation, comments/reasonings welcome.

Brotherly affection to all, Alex.

[Sketch]

Hello Alex,

I have to agree with you. It seems that we are expected to stay in a state of hyper-awareness or hyper-alertness. This simply is not possible while still maintaining mental stability. maybe this explains the ups and downs we all have in regards to our faith?

If you're always looking for "signs", you will find what you want to find... "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"... there isn't ALWAYS something behind it...

[LoveJehovah]

We are in the last days of this wicked system but we are to continue with our everyday lives as meant to be. We are, however, have to pay attention to things that are happening around us. Each and everyday things are happening around us and around the world. The Scriptures say that things will escalate and will go from bad to worse. I personally see this each and everyday but I don't get stressed out over being in the last days......I don't let it consume my thinking every minute, hour, day of my life because if you do that, you will lose focus of what we as True Christians are suppose to be doing.

[Nambo]

If indeed the 1914 prophecy is untrue, and in abcence of any other Biblical date to look too, what you say Alex is indeed a valid question.

I think the fact the JWs are here in the first place is an indication it cannot be far off, because imagine the damage the preaching of the good news by JWs would have done if it doesnt come before the whole religion fizzled out due to a supposed non-event?
It would be very difficult for the appropreate Kingdom good news spreading religion to have to go over the same ground again.

But, those of us here who have looked into the mechinations of Satans counterfiet kingdom, see signs that IT is looking to be established quite soon, and if that only has authority for 42 months, well Gods Kingdom cannot be that far off!

[Jeshurun]

Hi Alex

You raise many valid points. It may be difficult for some of us today to understand the atrocities that occurred long before our time. Satan's world has never been short on bloodshed, starting with Abel.

Something that stands out in my mind is that the events of 1914 were an orchestrated deception by Satan. The first "global war" must have seemed like doomsday to everyone alive back then, but it was not global by any means. The longer we go on, and the more prophecies become clear, the more evident it becomes that the Bible's words are astoundingly accurate just as they are written. The coming tribulation will truly define what Jesus meant when he said things like "all the inhabited earth", just as the Revelation leaves no corner of the earth out of the picture.

So in a sense, the "last days" could be said to have begun in 1914, but can we really say that people back then fit Paul's description of "haughty, blasphemers, lovers of money," etc? Today, however, it is quite obvious how society has changed. It's a terrible thought, but when we enter into the "final part of the days", I'm afraid we're going to see a very graphic fulfillment of just how widespread anarchy will really bring those words to fruition.

So obviously it's a gradual change, as each generation becomes worse than the last, until we plunge headfirst into the Great Tribulation. I believe that there won't be any doubt in our minds when it really does begin. The Kingdom being established, the war in heaven, Satan being cast down, will be a very definitive moment. All we have to do is resist any temptation to place dates, and do our best to keep on the watch. It's all coming to a head very soon, dear brother, and as of right now some of our brothers and sisters have indeed fallen asleep, due to decades upon decades of waiting in vain. I have faith that Jehovah will shake things up when the time is right for him, and then he's going to put us to work. Exciting, isn't it?

Lou

[Juan]

I note on the forum there is a section for posts entitled 'Living in the Last Days', but since we have reservations about accepting the Watchtower's interpretation of the prophetic significance of 1914, when do the 'last days' really begin? Have they started, or is it a future time period?[/b]

If "last days" is the same as "time of the end" I would say the last days is not yet. RK have an essay discussing the time of the end - What and When Is the Time of the End?


<h1 class="TitleColor">
</h1>

[Juan23]

After reading the text for today (Fri 26 Mar in Australia) I was going to start a new thread asking the question "When are the last days?". But I thought I would search the forum to see if the subject have been discussed before. And indeed there are a few with some interesting comments. So I'm bumping this thread to the top to see if any more comments will surface. Also I've pasted a comment from Nash which I thought was fair dinkum.


If "last days" is the same as "time of the end" I would say the last days is not yet. RK have an essay discussing the time of the end - What and When Is the Time of the End?


<h1 class="TitleColor">
</h1>

Hi FaithfulJW,

You wrote: "Do you hate all other religions equally, or do you just reserve your venom for the brothers?"

That's quite a question. We don't hate Jehovah's Witnesses, because most of us are Jehovah's Witnesses. We recognize the principles of which our faith is based, such as the teaching of the New Covenant, the 144,000, the hope of living in a paradise, and that Jehovah is Almighty God and that Jesus Christ is his Son who died for us and gave his life as a ransom.

What many of us understand here is that our organization has become somewhat militant, enforced by present-day Pharisees. Everything that comes from the so-called faithful and discreet slave must be accepted without question. Otherwise, one is branded an apostate and is thrown out of the organization. There are many examples of this. In addition, there is a subtle mind control which exists in the organization. It may not be intentionally malevolent, but yet it exists.

The WTS has become tainted with man-made doctrines. I won't go into detail, but it's easy to see that there is (what I call) an oral law similar to what existed in Jesus' day - man-made rules which caused all sorts of problems and burdened the people down. The organization has many policies and procedures that are not to be found in the bible. This is not to say that these so-called rules are wrong in themselves (some of them are, actually) but the Society has taken them to such a level that defiance of the rules is defiance of Jehovah himself.

The WTS has also created another problem. It has turned its interpretations of prophecy into doctrine itself. For example, I don't believe that the invasion of locusts in the book of Joel symbolize Jehovah's people. It just doesn't make any sense. But, if I were to make my views known, I would be labelled an apostate. Yet, there is pressure to believe the Governing Body's interpretation of the book of Joel so as to remain in good standing in the congregation and organization. Is that fair to you?

At one time, organ transplants were banned. Also, the blood issue has changed over the years. Some people died believing the Governing Body's interpretation of scripture - then, after such persons died, policies were changed by the Governing Body because their understanding changed, and what was once unacceptable became acceptable. There were many needless deaths. The Society must answer for that.

Malachi 2:16 states that Jehovah has "hated a divorcing." How do you explain the fact that the organization's policies in the past broke up marriages, and then when the understanding of the scriptures was changed, the divorced individuals were told to, in a nutshell, shut up and accept it? The Society must answer for that.

Prior to 1975, the Society created so much anticipation about that year in the literature that any excuse is unacceptable. Many were encouraged to give up homes, marriage, and children. Is that fair? What did our King say? Acts 1:7 says that "it does not belong to [us] to get knowledge of the times or seasons." Jesus said that with good reason. If we want to buy a home, or marry, or have children, or save for retirement, or buy a car, or whatever, whose business is that except for the individual(s) involved? It is not the Society's business. Yet, they put their face where it did not belong and stubled many individuals needlessly. The Society must answer for that.

Even now, the Society is still causing problems. Why is higher education discouraged, for example?

The Society must also answer for the issues related to the NGO and child abuse issues.

You see, it's not like the Society made one or two errors in judgment. They have made many, and they are not stopping.

One reason, in my opinion, as to why they are making mistakes is because of their obsession with the preaching work. If, as the Society claims, Jehovah directs the work, why is the Society discouraging anything that would 'take them away' from as full a share as possible in the work (like higher education). Why the lack of faith in Jehovah?

These are only some of the reasons why many of us are here. There are many more, I can assure you. It's not that we are here to undermine the faith of Jehovah's people. In fact, many of us have been hurt by so-called brothers and sisters.

In fact, one of the first occasions was when I questioned the governing body on one of its man-made doctrines. Guess what happened? I was not even allowed to pray on behalf of the congregation.

Many of us here have been through ill treatment by elders and/or others in the congregations. Some feel they can't go to meetings. We can't all be delusional, can we?

It's hard to see the injustice when it doesn't happen to you. I don't mean petty injustice. When lives are turned upside down because of people who claim that they are helping you, and they don't see that they are making the situation worse, there's a problem.

Speaking from personal experience, the elders simplify issues too much. Some problems are complex, and, sadly, they are ill-equipped to deal with many issues. But, because they claim to be appointed by holy spirit (I believe that, indirectly speaking, some are and some aren't) their judgments will not be questioned.

These are some of the things that we are upset about. We've all heard the usual excuses such as: "leave it in Jehovah's hands" (i.e. "do nothing"), and "the light gets brighter."

These are lame excuses, and it shows that spiritual paradise is a myth. Haven't you noticed that there are excuses for everything? For example, a good media piece shows that Jehovah is blessing his people yet a bad news item shows that Satan controls the media. Or, if a land is blessed with increase in the yearbook it is due to Jehovah's blessing, yet if there is a decrease then Satan's system has a hold on many people there.

So, coming back to your original question, it is not us who are venomous. We are the ones who were attacked in the 'spiritual paradise,' my brother - not the other way around.

Nash

Hi again FaithfulJW,

I wanted to write further so as to not leave you with the wrong impression. I am not out to bash the WTS. Indeed, I have defended the WTS on many occasions, when appropriate to do so. It's also a fact that without the WTS, most of us would probably not have a grasp of bible truth, since it was this organization that introduced many of us to a study of the bible. The WTS helps many to live good lives in harmony with the bible and helps us to further make changes in our lives by reminding us of many of the bible's principles. And was it not the WTS that has helped us to draw closer to Jehovah, helped us to understand the ransom of Jesus, as well as to help us understand Jehovah's purpose for the earth? For these things and more, we can be very grateful. And we should be grateful. The fact of the matter is that Jehovah has used the WTS to serve a purpose.

I don't think that the organization is bad. What I am saying is that there is an evil element within it, that has and is continuing to cause much damage. What many of us here have come to realize is that these events are prophetic and are much more profound than the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses realize.

Nash

[arimatthewdavies]

this qustion of when are the last days has been asked since jesus day. jesus did not give a definative answer so is their one? i say no as long as people are repenting and turning to jehovah jehovahs mercy rules! here is a sobering thought for everyone, nobody alive will ever have to wait more than 100 years or so to see the end of their own life, when that happens and you wake up you will get to see what ever happened while you were sleeping, truely i hope the last day never comes because that day means dead people, and jehovah wants no one dead he wants everyone to have eternal life.