Meeting Mindset.

[Sketch]

As some of you may know - I know bro. king rolls his eyes when he sees some of my posts ;) - I've been in and around this board for a time - and have been responsible for more than a few rants and posts that make you look sideways... but one issue came up last night with my wife.

The past 18-24 months have been the most testing time we've ever had. I was laid off, we got pregnant and had a child (2 months preemie, with maternal complications), moved in with family 800 miles away from our home, and then had to sell our house - the little piece of paradise we had. in that order.

All of this has taken a toll on both of us. I have prior to, and now my wife suffer through boughts of depression - however, right now, hers is more serious. she is set to see a doctor on thursday evening, but she wants to move it back because she might be late for the meeting. her reasoning is that the meetings are more important - however, just the other night, she was having suicidal thoughts. She is still stuck in the mindset that meetings=faith.

I guess it doesnt help that her family is the ultra-conservative-typical-JW (even SHE knows how judgemental they are), and I'm almost a mirror opposite - where i think that people should be allowed to make their own decisions once they have the information they need. I grew up being judged, so I try my hardest not to... sometimes failing.... but i havent been to a meeting in about 2 months... so i am the black sheep.

has anyone been here before? how did you deal with this?? any guidance would be appreciated!

[Nambo]

Hi Sketch, Ive never been there before, never even had to concern myself with anyone but me, so cannot offer you much guidence, only comiseration, time and Jehovah will surely take you to a better place.

For now though, I think the number 1 priority is the wellbeing and feelings of your wife.
Whilst you might consider seeing a doctor, its what she wants that I think you should submit to for now.
A doctor will not be able to offer an instant magic solution, (probably not ever), whereas you know the meetings are important to your wife, with all the problems and depression she has, you dont want to add to it by getting her to miss the meetings becuse she will then have guilt to add to the problems she allready has.
She might well feel Jehovahs Spirit there and what could be more benificial than that?

Maybe even, though you might not feel inclined to go for your own reasons, you could accompany your wife to the meetings, Iam sure that will be important to her and might just cheer her up a bit.

May Jehovah be with you.

[Jeshurun]

Hi Sketch

Sorry to hear what's gone on in your lives.

Nambo's got the right idea. Try to be at the meetings with your wife, continue praying to Jehovah, and don't let anyone get wind of your involvement with this DB. The last thing you need is to get df'd. In the meantime, put all the energy you can into regaining your income so that you and your family can get back on your own. And by all means try to concur with your wife that the meetings are of the utmost importance. Believe it or not, I wish I was in such a position where my wife was a Witness, but I'm working on it ;)

Hang in there Sketch
Lou

[SWORDOFJAH]

I agree,your wife needs are the key here.So support her if that includes going to the meetings with her.Also pray together cause the power 0f Jah&#39;s spirit is the most powerful force of the universe.<div align="left">(Proverbs 24:6) ". . .For by skillful direction you will carry on your war,. . ."</div>

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

As some of you may know - I know bro. king rolls his eyes when he sees some of my posts ;) - I&#39;ve been in and around this board for a time - and have been responsible for more than a few rants and posts that make you look sideways... but one issue came up last night with my wife.

The past 18-24 months have been the most testing time we&#39;ve ever had. I was laid off, we got pregnant and had a child (2 months preemie, with maternal complications), moved in with family 800 miles away from our home, and then had to sell our house - the little piece of paradise we had. in that order.

All of this has taken a toll on both of us. I have prior to, and now my wife suffer through boughts of depression - however, right now, hers is more serious. she is set to see a doctor on thursday evening, but she wants to move it back because she might be late for the meeting. her reasoning is that the meetings are more important - however, just the other night, she was having suicidal thoughts. She is still stuck in the mindset that meetings=faith.

I guess it doesnt help that her family is the ultra-conservative-typical-JW (even SHE knows how judgemental they are), and I&#39;m almost a mirror opposite - where i think that people should be allowed to make their own decisions once they have the information they need. I grew up being judged, so I try my hardest not to... sometimes failing.... but i havent been to a meeting in about 2 months... so i am the black sheep.

has anyone been here before? how did you deal with this?? any guidance would be appreciated![/b]

Hi Sketch,

We can really feel for you regarding the situation you find yourself in at this time

Both my husband and myself have had to endure an awful 24 months at the hands of the elders in our congregation. We have been made the scapegoats for a situation bought on by the elders themselves. This has resulted in our attendance at the meetings stopping for the last 5 weeks in which time we have found Robert&#39;s site.

Due to the lack of attendance at the meetings, at the Thursday night book study out married daughter and her ministerial servant husband along with our 20 year old son and 12 year old daughter we kept back to be spoken to and encouraged by the book study conducter and his wife!.

This resulted in our son comming home in a mood and our 12 year old daughter non too happy either. My husband felt that he should call the elder and just enquire as to his moitves, as although we felt it was acceptable if our daughter wanted to talk with him, or our son, we felt that it was undermining out parental authority to include our 12 year old daughter. Despite telling this elder on a few occassions that we did not doubt his good intentions, he refused to accept it.

Today at the meeting he took my two eldest children to one side and asked them if they were O.K, to which they affirmed the positive.
Within a half hour of the meeting ending he was to call my husband and I quote............

" I am not going to throw down the telephone but when I have finished I will be putting the telephone down. you will need to find yourself a new book study group............................................. ......."

We have come to the conclusion now that we are a threat to the congregation and it is SATAN that is making our life difficult, because of out new found truth. I am guessing that this is what he is doing to everyone that has found this site and we cannot expect the going to be easy.

Where do we go from here now? It is quite clear how the body views us at this time, and we are expecting a letter in the post at anytime.

Sketch I guess this means that it is now that we really have to lean on Jehovah and he will make a way out for us.
Incidentally we have also gone through redundancy which in itself can cause a strain to your marriage but you CAN work through these. Whether you can actually attend the meetings yourself at present (and we can fully understand the problems that you have with this),the best thing that you can do for your wife is to be there with her, for her doctors appointment, and a strong arm for her to lean on. Your care and attention may in time make her more receptive to the things you likely wish you could say, and which in fact would help her I am sure.

I am sure that you will have to be patient, and I pray that Jehovah will help and encourage you

Christian Love

Eli&#39;s Foe

[Sketch]

For now though, I think the number 1 priority is the wellbeing and feelings of your wife.... Whilst you might consider seeing a doctor, its what she wants that I think you should submit to for now.[/b]

I spent about 2 years in therapy, learning the who&#39;s, whats and why&#39;s. I spent most of those 2 years on drugs that made me feel like Ben Stein ALL THE TIME. I didnt have the rollercoaster, but i didnt have any emotion. I have since found my own therapy that works quite well.


A doctor will not be able to offer an instant magic solution, (probably not ever), whereas you know the meetings are important to your wife, with all the problems and depression she has, you dont want to add to it by getting her to miss the meetings becuse she will then have guilt to add to the problems she allready has.[/b]

I wholeheartedly support my wife&#39;s decision to go to the meetings and she takes my daughter. She says they make her feel better. But she believes that she only has faith if she goes to meetings and follow the WTS to the letter and that has NOTHING to do with whether or not you have faith in Jehovah. If someone breaks their foot, do you tell them to go to the meeting and THEN go to the ER? if a child cut themselves, and blood is pouring out, do you go to the hospital AFTER the meeting? NO! this isn&#39;t a broken bone, this isn&#39;t a cut, this is my wife&#39;s LIFE! I understand that being a JW, and going to meetings is a big part of her life, and mine too, and that it should be used in conjunction with other treatments to help, but the longer you wait, the harder it is to fix the problem. you have 5 meetings a week. you have 1 life. being late for a meeting will not kill you.... on the other hand.....


Try to be at the meetings with your wife, continue praying to Jehovah, and don&#39;t let anyone get wind of your involvement with this DB. The last thing you need is to get df&#39;d.[/b]

Thanks Lou, if it was that simple - just going to the meetings with my wife - that would be no problem. But right now, going back to the meetings is as easy for me as it is for most to preach the 1914 doctrine with a straight face. I&#39;m working on it. I even started a family study again... but my issues or deeper... and i have a LOT of issues :blink: .... I don&#39;t talk to anyone about my spirituality anyway... though if it comes up, i stick to the strategic questioning instead of the preaching... "prove to me that a firey hell exists", with a point/counter point kind of thing...

I appreciate these comments. However, some time ago, at the time - a trusted elder actually told me "if you&#39;re depressed, you don&#39;t have enough faith...". and you know what? the only people that have ever said things like that are the people that have never had or loved someone who had depression. they don&#39;t realize that its not something that can be easily remedied by reading a few scriptures - any more than reading the bible can cure a broken foot.

Thanx EF. I know to some degree what she&#39;s going through, but each case is really individually wrapped. I give her as much support as I can...

[fruitage]

Sketch...my what a lot of stress....no wonder you and your wife have been through depressions....that is normal and to be expected....what would not be normal is to not get depressed with all of this...but the world thinking is give you a pill to make you happy...when we should be allowed to have these normal feelings of depression...and the suicidal part is the scary part...who hasn&#39;t had thoughts that it would be easier to just get out of all the pain...Job did...but is the depression so bad a person actually tries to get out of their pain by suicide....this is when you should start taking action in the best way to intervene.

I remember when I was around 12 yrs old....and my twin brothers were born....my mom went into a depression...bad one..it is now known as post partum depression....the doc had put her on a pill to get up in the morning and one to go to sleep at night..(Doc did not know about post partum dep then)...my mom literally sometimes didn&#39;t know reality from her dream states..well meaning family members came over and helped ...both my maternal and paternal g. mothers came and stayed.

Visitors came over to see if they could offer some help.....well I remember the day my dad closed the bedroom door and would not let anyone bother my mom...he was her protector....he got her off the pills..away from well meaning ones...and got her over the worst part...see what love can do.

When my mom remembers back..she said it felt like she was dreaming....

But Sketch who knows what may have happened if my dad had not stepped in and put an end to all the well meaning friends, family and including the Doc.

Sometimes its only our mate who know us the best and can truly help each other...your wife probably feels a certain loyalty to all...you..her family...and she is not being allowed to act on what she knows to be the best thing for her and for you to do at this point...give her hope...that this is only temporary and you and her will soon be able to get back to the normal things that kept her grounded and focused....hopefully you two have a place, or space to have for privacy and get away by yourselves..even a drive in the country helps or a change of scenery even if for a few hours can do wonders to restore your peace and calm your thoughts.

I hope and pray you are able to work things out..

Take care

[Nash]

Hi Sketch! B)

I feel for you on this as well, and I echo what others have said. Your wife needs you.

Satan is working very hard and it appears that many wierd and unusual things are happening in many congregations. I can empathize with you.

You also made the following comment: "a trusted elder actually told me: "...if you&#39;re depressed, you don&#39;t have enough faith...."" Take such comments with a grain of salt. Some of the elders today are ignorant of so many things and they often make matters much worse because they have forgotten how to use their brain.

By the way, you also made the following comment: "we got pregnant and had a child." WOW! This is the first time I&#39;ve ever heard of a man getting pregnant! :lol:

Hang in there!

Nash

[Sketch]

WOW! This is the first time I&#39;ve ever heard of a man getting pregnant! :lol:[/b]

Yeah, I figure I had something to do with it, and I "suffered" through it too... that and I get in trouble when I tell people i got her "knocked up" :lol:

the little booger is growing like a weed though... oy...

[eyes&ears]

Hi Sketch,

My heart is saddened by the trials you and your loved ones are experiencing right now. Indeed critical times hard to deal with.

I&#39;d like to leave you with a scripture, and will also keep you and your family in prayer OKEY DOKEY.

1 Jn 5:14 (NIV)

This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

1 Jn 5:15 (NIV)

And if we know that he hears us - whatever we ask - we know that we have what we asked of him.

I pray your family&#39;s health improves very soon, and that you are able to find employment to take care of your family and once again have a measure of peace in your own private surroundings.

We all have to HOLD ON TIGHT TO JEHOVAH AND HIS SON AS THE WICKED ONE TURNS UP THE HEAT ON ALL OF US AS WE STRIVE TO STAND FIRM.

We must be determined to continue to love Jehovah with our all, and stay as FOCUSED as we can as we deal with the critical times now and those that are certainly coming in our future. The wicked one is after everything we have including OUR MINDS.

PUT ON THAT COMPLETE SUIT OF ARMOR AND FIGHT BACK OKEY DOKEY.

We have PRAYER and those who do love us. HOLD ON TIGHT TO THAT.


Prayers and lots of love to you and your family


Eyes & Ears

[DoubtingThomas]

Depression seems to be a fairly common ailment amoung many of our dear Brothers & Sisters. I have seen some reports and studies that appear to indicate that depression exist in a higher proportion of JW&#39;s than it does in the world population in general. I wonder if it could be due to the rigorous demands placed upon us by the so-called shepherds of God&#39;s people? These demands (reporting of time, no college education, how long to grow our hair, how to dress, what entertainment to watch or read, what blood components are acceptable to God, etc. etc. etc.) have been frequently discussed by members of this DB, and they are mostly in the form of man-made rules and not scriptural. No wonder many are depressed.

[olrono]

P.S. Give us a report how it works out, and you will see how then you can encourage others here.

[jammin4]

Some elders seem more understanding of depression then others. I know of one elder in a neighboring congregation who has been on lithium for years for his depression!!!

As a bipolar, it is imperative that I have one hour therapy sessions once every two weeks. At one point, it was necessary to make these sessions on Saturday mornings so that I missed my ministry every other week. I didn&#39;t feel good about it and my time went down, but I knew the therapy was important too...and I knew Jehovah did too! That&#39;s all that mattered.

I have not been able to take anti-depressants. They interfere with my ability to sleep. My little Malteses dog, Babyface, is my anti-depressant. He works pretty well. I do take meds to help me sleep and to control mania. But even those meds are not completely foolproof!!

My therapist tells me that there IS a higher incidence of suicidal thoughts and attempts within the JWs. I think it&#39;s due to our elevated consciousness of a true God that really does exist and requires us to work at staying close to him in a very wicked world. So the everyday stresses for us are much greater then those for the general population.

Post partum increases depressive episodes, but I believe they will subside. In the meanwhile, as I have said so many times before, it is best to stay aware of the most important thing - one&#39;s relationship with Jehovah. Jehovah is a merciful God who realizes we are from dust and imperfect. He is long suffering, kind, and merciful and does make allowance for whatever ailments we have. As long as one is doing their imperfect best to love and serve him, who is another imperfect person to make a judgement call??!!! Just do the best you can in a balanced way and stay close to Jehovah. He&#39;ll work things out for you all in the long haul!!! He&#39;s the one who&#39;s truly in control..even of the elders who do not understand and handle things in a difficult way.

[Nambo]

My therapist tells me that there IS a higher incidence of suicidal thoughts and attempts within the JWs. I think it&#39;s due to our elevated consciousness of a true God that really does exist and requires us to work at staying close to him in a very wicked world. So the everyday stresses for us are much greater then those for the general population.[/b]

Didnt Jesus say something about his yoke being light and kindly or something?
I expect Jesus and Jehovah want us to be alive for training in thier New System, there is going to be a lot of pressure on Faithfull ones, but it will be from outside sources, not from Jehovah himself.
Methinks the society is binding us with thier heavy loads with thier teachings of the doctrines of men as commandments.

[Kenneth]

The problem is we are all swimming up stream so to speak and fighting against the system to uphold Jehovah&#39;s way. The system is geared into dishonesty, lying, fornication and other such abuses and the longer it goes on the harder was have to swim to keep afloat. If everyone lived by Gods standards then life would be easier. We could blame the society to a degree but at the end of the day its either Jehovah or Satan&#39;s way. As Satan is the god of this world those who go with the flow can do want they like and please themselves. As for Gods people they have to face the brunt of wickness that Satan dishes out. Depression is nothing new in the 1^st century Paul wrote "On the other hand, we exhort YOU, brothers, admonish the disorderly, speak consolingly to the depressed souls, support the weak, be long-suffering toward all". The problem is we are fighting the system and the demands place upon us to study, go to meetings, preach, be a good husband/wife hold down a secular job add to our the anxiety when we don&#39;t fulfil the role. We should stop worry what the society require of us and go at our own pace with a little exertion then we might find a measure of peace in the world.

kenneth

[eyes&ears]

Hi Nambo,

"Methinks the society is binding us with thier heavy loads with thier teachings of the doctrines of men as commandments. "

SURELY YOU JEST :icon_rolleyes: YOU THINK?

Just picking with you, of course I totally agree.

That&#39;s why I am so glad that Jehovah has allowed me to see how important it really is to do what he says, and to be reasonable. Otherwise we will all be very ill, spiritually, mentally, emotionally and psychologically. I see it a great deal in the congs. I have been in for any amount of time.

Have also suffered from spiritual/mental exhaustion myself for trying to live up to unreasonable standards of never doing enough.

But Jehvovah caught me just in time. I am so very thankful for all he has done and the friends who are loving and patient.

Best to you NAMBO. Reminds me so much of RAMBO :D

Eyes & Ears

[Sketch]

Just an update....

My wife went to her appointment last night and was very suprised at the way everything happened. She was scared that the therapist would try and discredit the whole religious side of her life - but like my therapist years ago, and hers now, they use it as a tool - or they deal with issues not related to faith.... funny how the WTS always tells us how psychologists try and undermine your faith... try to scare you away from getting the help you need... shades of scientology...

anyway, she really enjoyed it and will be going on a reglar basis, for a little bit anyway.... I just have to fight the urge to ask what was said in the sessions..... as long as she&#39;s happy, and she&#39;s getting help...

thank you, everyone for all of your concern...

[Shibboleth]

Hey Sketch,

I to had a therapy session back in 1999. The doctor I saw never really knew much about the Witnesses and he was intrigued. He said it was probably my faith that kept me from completely "snapping".

Regards,

Shibboleth

[Kenneth]

funny how the WTS always tells us how psychologists try and undermine your faith...[/b]

The problem is when we want to prove a point we look for the negative in the discipline and homogenise it. This maybe the case in alternative therapies if the group are anti it they will pick on a case that went bad and run with it. The watchtower has a tendency to do this especially in the field of higher education.


Kenneth