Wt Collapse: Economic Vs. Organizational

[Jeshurun]

I have a question concerning the coming collapse of the Watchtower.

The entire political system is now primed for total economic collapse, see here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2817995.stm

The way the Watchtower is set up, they will cease to function to some degree when this happens. Printing will stop for sure. The entire system will probably be without electrical power for a time. The 7th head will at the same time recieve it's death stroke, and spend time in the "abyss". It comes back to life as the UN, and finishes off the WTBTS, completing the "scattering". This would mean that the Society would have to survive the economic collapse. Does anyone have any thoughts about how this scenario might play out?

Thanks

Lou

[fruitage]

All the economy is based on figures and assets are recorded ....I wonder what happens to the actual paper currencies money....do they become worthless...I know the WTS always taught in the end ...marshall law would be declared and people would be throwing their money in the streets, as it wouldn't be worth anything....and then we would probably be in a barter system....

[Molly]

Hi Fruitage-

With regard to the currency, our paper money is essentially worthless, most Americans just don't realize it. Ever since we went off the gold standard and since the Federal Reserve has control of the money, it really is just worthless paper. And the US is so deep in debt that we are really bankrupt. It's almost like those behind the scenes are humoring us until they want to pull the plug. This could be so easily done by manipulating the markets is some fashion causing hyper-inflation. Or some world situation could cause markets to reel. There have been a few near catastrophies lately that had economists jumping. It's only a matter of when. Perhaps a good question now is where would you put your excess cash today if you knew tomorrow it would be worthless.

As for how the WTS goes down, it will be however Jehovah sees fit - probably a combination of events as you suggested.

Jeshurun-

While reading Luke 21 the other day regarding the nations rising against nations, I came across verse 12 which said: "But before all these things people will lay their hands upon you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, you being haled before kings and governors for the sake of my name...16 Moreover, you will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death; 17 and you will be objects of hatred by all people because of my name. 18 And yet not a hair of your heads will by any means perish. 19 By endurance on your part you will acquire your souls.

First, I had thought that it was at some point after that wars and reports of wars that the JWs would be attacked but this indicates that it comes first. Then it says that some will be put to death and then that by endurance not a hair of your head will perish. Can't figure that out.

Then, primarily this would be applied to the annointed, but that doesn't mean the rest of us won't suffer as well.

It might be good to develope a time line of how and when some of these events occur, because some of them are a bit fuzzy as to which comes first and what the actual sequencing is.

Molly

[Nash]

Hi folks.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I admit to being of the camp where I believe that the economic system of the U.S. has a high probability of collapsing.

Nash

[Jinnvisible]

I have a question concerning the coming collapse of the Watchtower.

.......................... and finishes off the WTBTS, completing the "scattering". This would mean that the Society would have to survive the economic collapse. Does anyone have any thoughts about how this scenario might play out?

Thanks

Lou[/b]

Hi Lou,

I believe it will go much further than this. Many folks among the association of Jehovah`s witnessess will agree that the society could be lost during the great tribulation. Many do not like to allude to the idea, however it is recognised as generally not being beyond the bounds of possibillity simply under the catagory of the difficulties of tribulation.

In fact is a person who actually worshiped the WTBTS in place of God would certainly feel that its loss was `Great Tribulation` it would simply confirm a prophetic expectation.

I believe that prophesy will fulfill in such a way that willl show the `faithfull and descreet` at bethel were in fact brides without lamp oil because they were unable to read the prophesy and prepare the people for the difficulties in the way that the `faithful and wise` Dainel was able to read the dream for Pharoah to the benefit of the Hebrew tribal heads that were his brothers.

Jesus described them in much the same way as Josephs brothers. These ones `beat down` thier brother-bride and fellow slaves. Much in the same way that a person might be disfellowshiped or disregarded today for relating truths about the future as Joseph was beaten and sold out for relating the truths about his dreams to his brothers the fathers of the twelve tribes.

The WTBTS will go down in such a way not only through human means but it will also be torn down as an idol in the minds of those who have become unreasoning idolators of it. This will occur when the terrible suffering of the people makes them question why they were not warned of the things that they were to endure.

Its a strange thing to see that people who spend so much time and effort warning others have alowed themselves to be put beyond warnings.

Nothing is hidden from God.

[olrono]

Some would disagree with me, but I believe I have a ‘nose; for this. Remember when they had that big ‘long shore man’ strike on the East coast? Well the Society got its paper delivered, and I believe it was because of the connection now with the United Nations. Don’t be so sure of the Watchtower’s collapse any time soon, I believe the UN is looking at the Watchtower organization structure, closely as a ‘model’ for their “one world religion”.

[Jeshurun]

Hi Jinn

You're absolutely right, I do believe that as events unfold in the world, the Watchtower's lack of insight will become painfully obvious. But the scriptures make it clear that the Watchtower's demise comes at the hands of the modern Chaldean, represented by Nebuchadnezzar. The modern Chaldean doesn't come into existence until the 8th king, or the "disgusting thing" that desolates the "holy place". It would also mean that the 42 months can't even begin until the 8th king rises.

An implosion from within seems to be out of the question, but it doesn't mean an awful lot of people won't "flee to the mountains" in the future, when the prophecy of Matthew 24 comes to fruition, and the "disgusting thing" becomes apparent. I was trying to envision what life as a Witness will be like in that interim period before total destruction of the organization. I undertand though that much information will be coming from Jehovah in the "final part of the days" so maybe this question really can't be answered to any real degree at the moment. But many heads are better than one and this site is filled with some incredibly insightful people such as yourself.

My buddy Ron, you have a very active mind, and you may be on the right track. I was thinking along the lines of, maybe the Watchtower is doing something different from Babylon the Great that will sink them legally before the other religions go down, especially since Christendom plays a major role in instigating the attack on Jehovah's people. Or maybe because they are the only ones announcing Jehovah's judgments on the nations, especially in view of the most recent "enlightenment". I would imagine that their declaring that the preaching work is done would put them in the bulls-eye before, lets say, the Vatican, who continues to serve the neocons' purpose of keeping their masses in a coma.

[olrono]

I love ya Lou!

[Nambo]

Hi Molly, you wrote "Perhaps a good question now is where would you put your excess cash today if you knew tomorrow it would be worthless."

Well a lot of sites that look at this coming collapse say, Gold, buy gold!

But then isnt thier a scripture somewhere saying people will trow thier gold in the streets?
Thats providing they let us keep it anyway, didnt it become illegal to keep your own gold back in the 20s in America?

And also you ask "and they will put some of you to death; 17 and you will be objects of hatred by all people because of my name. 18 And yet not a hair of your heads will by any means perish. 19 By endurance on your part you will acquire your souls.

First, I had thought that it was at some point after that wars and reports of wars that the JWs would be attacked but this indicates that it comes first. Then it says that some will be put to death and then that by endurance not a hair of your head will perish. Can't figure that out."

Well, we had a discussion recently about dont fear those that can kill the body, but fear the one who can destroy the soul, same thing I would say, even if somebody puts you to death, Jehovah just puts you back together again and you wont be short of one hair on your head! So said hair wont perish because if something perishes, its gone for good.

Theres some great researching out there on the con that is the monetary system, the money itself is totally worthless as these guys dont have the gold to honour all the paper notes they have issued in lue of it, but the interest the charge you on it is real.
No wonder these guys are so rich without having to lift a finger.
Maybe we should all take our paper money to the bank and ask them to honour it.

Did you know that The Bank of England has nothing to do with england?, its owned by the Rothchilds, just think, if Britain had its own money, instead of the say £500 a month interest you have to pay on your mortgage going intpo Rothchilds pocket, it could be in the public purse and maybe we wouldnt have to pay so much tax!

Same in America, the Federal Reserve is a private institution which is said to make 15 cents on every dollar it prints for America.

And now these international bankers own Africa as well, remember when they wiped out Africas dept a couple of years ago....in exchange for....running the countries banking systems.

I read that there are only six countries they dont "own", Afganistan, well now they do, Iraq, well now they do, Iran, well that wont be for long, I think the others included Syria.

Once these people have you in dept, they can do what they like with "Thier" money, and then they can take payments for what you owe, in physical property, which is worth something.

Heres an example that helped the Rothchilds get Palestine from the Turks:-

" Turkey fought on Germany’s side in W.W. I. A few powerful Jews, including the Rothschilds were responsible for the wording of the Treaty imposed on Germany that ended W.W. I (3) The treaty gave the Rothschilds the German owned railway rights in Palestine (which had been part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire), thus paving the way for the Rothschilds to have a sure leverage to dictate policy concerning Palestine. The Rothschilds had made loans to Turkey which amounted to almost one hundred million pounds. When the Turkish government collapsed after W.W. I because they were on the losing side, the Rothschilds had a claim on Palestine because of those unpaid Turkish loans.⁴The British government followed the dictates of the Rothschilds. The British were given a mandate over Palestine, and the Rothschilds were able to through their proxies in the British government, to create the steps that led to the nation of Israel."


So, heres a scenario, the Illuminati international bankers destroy thier worthless monetary syetem, collect the debts in material assets, ie, your house, and then start up a new One World Order Monetary system that is only available to those who get the mark of the Beast.

I think there are going to be a lot of faithfull JWs having to live out on the streets for three and a half years, unless they put us in those lovely concentration camps they are building!

[dgibson]

RRrrraa! Stock-up on those MRE's "meals ready to eat" RRrraaaa!!

[Molly]

Hi Molly, you wrote "Perhaps a good question now is where would you put your excess cash today if you knew tomorrow it would be worthless."

Well a lot of sites that look at this coming collapse say, Gold, buy gold!

But then isnt thier a scripture somewhere saying people will trow thier gold in the streets?
Thats providing they let us keep it anyway, didnt it become illegal to keep your own gold back in the 20s in America?

And also you ask "and they will put some of you to death; 17 and you will be objects of hatred by all people because of my name. 18 And yet not a hair of your heads will by any means perish. 19 By endurance on your part you will acquire your souls.

First, I had thought that it was at some point after that wars and reports of wars that the JWs would be attacked but this indicates that it comes first. Then it says that some will be put to death and then that by endurance not a hair of your head will perish. Can't figure that out."

Well, we had a discussion recently about dont fear those that can kill the body, but fear the one who can destroy the soul, same thing I would say, even if somebody puts you to death, Jehovah just puts you back together again and you wont be short of one hair on your head! So said hair wont perish because if something perishes, its gone for good.

Theres some great researching out there on the con that is the monetary system, the money itself is totally worthless as these guys dont have the gold to honour all the paper notes they have issued in lue of it, but the interest the charge you on it is real.
No wonder these guys are so rich without having to lift a finger.
Maybe we should all take our paper money to the bank and ask them to honour it.

Did you know that The Bank of England has nothing to do with england?, its owned by the Rothchilds, just think, if Britain had its own money, instead of the say £500 a month interest you have to pay on your mortgage going intpo Rothchilds pocket, it could be in the public purse and maybe we wouldnt have to pay so much tax!

Same in America, the Federal Reserve is a private institution which is said to make 15 cents on every dollar it prints for America.

And now these international bankers own Africa as well, remember when they wiped out Africas dept a couple of years ago....in exchange for....running the countries banking systems.

I read that there are only six countries they dont "own", Afganistan, well now they do, Iraq, well now they do, Iran, well that wont be for long, I think the others included Syria.

Once these people have you in dept, they can do what they like with "Thier" money, and then they can take payments for what you owe, in physical property, which is worth something.

Heres an example that helped the Rothchilds get Palestine from the Turks:-

" Turkey fought on Germany's side in W.W. I. A few powerful Jews, including the Rothschilds were responsible for the wording of the Treaty imposed on Germany that ended W.W. I (3) The treaty gave the Rothschilds the German owned railway rights in Palestine (which had been part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire), thus paving the way for the Rothschilds to have a sure leverage to dictate policy concerning Palestine. The Rothschilds had made loans to Turkey which amounted to almost one hundred million pounds. When the Turkish government collapsed after W.W. I because they were on the losing side, the Rothschilds had a claim on Palestine because of those unpaid Turkish loans.⁴The British government followed the dictates of the Rothschilds. The British were given a mandate over Palestine, and the Rothschilds were able to through their proxies in the British government, to create the steps that led to the nation of Israel."


So, heres a scenario, the Illuminati international bankers destroy thier worthless monetary syetem, collect the debts in material assets, ie, your house, and then start up a new One World Order Monetary system that is only available to those who get the mark of the Beast.

I think there are going to be a lot of faithfull JWs having to live out on the streets for three and a half years, unless they put us in those lovely concentration camps they are building![/b]


Hi Nambo-

The reason I asked the question was above was because the natural tendence would be to think gold, but I was thinking more in terms of the parable of the steward that was found inept and was dismissed but before that happened he made good use of his position to make sure that he would be welcomed elsewhere (Luke 16: 1-8). Although dismissed he was praised for his "practical wisdom," noting that the "sons of this system of things are wiser in a practical way toward their own generation than the sons of the light are." In other words, a little planning and practical wisdom is a good thing.

You offer the scenerio of the Illuminati destroying the worthless monetary system and providing their own in exchange for a little worship, suggesting that a lot of JWs are going to be on the street for 42 month. That is my whole point. The whole system is going to be turned upside down in a way that we may not be able to completely imagine at this point. Certainly, we can't count on maintaining our present lifestyle or our present homes, etc. The upheaval for JWs will be complete. Of course, most will be so confused at first, since this not what they expected. Dgibson suggested MREs. Sounds more reasonable than gold!

In other words, the end result is that the Illuminati will own everything and everyone else will essentially be their slave.

You pointed out that the remaining few countries not under the control of the Rothschild's are the ones presently under the gun. That should be a clue as to where we are. That's encouraging and frightening. There is virtually nothing that can stop these people. Imagine the scenerio if there was no hope from Jehovah. At least it is wonderful to have the insight that Jehovah is just using them, and them to correct his people, then they will be removed when Jehovah has no more use for them. If only we can last till day 1335, and if not, then hopefully we remain faithful till whatever is our last day.

In any event it appears that the first order of business for Satan when he is thrown down to the earth is to "wage war on the remaining ones of [the woman's] seed, who observe the commandments of God..." That, I guess is how we will know when Satan has been thrown down, and Jesus is reigning. I guess, we can at that point lift our heads up since our deliverance will be only a couple of years away.

Molly

[juffowup]

I'm not interested in speculating on the hows of the upcoming destruction. I used to be, but I wasn't careful about it and got having expectations that led to me thinking it's going to be one way and when it didn't turn out that way got testy with Jehovah. So now I just wait and see. I know dgibson was joking, but there is no way to prepare for the great tribulation. Converting money to gold, stockpiling stores of goods, buying guns and ammo, it is all vanity at best.

Stockpile on faith if you can, because Jehovah will supply us with everything else we need to survive if we have that.

[Molly]

I'm not interested in speculating on the hows of the upcoming destruction. I used to be, but I wasn't careful about it and got having expectations that led to me thinking it's going to be one way and when it didn't turn out that way got testy with Jehovah. So now I just wait and see. I know dgibson was joking, but there is no way to prepare for the great tribulation. Converting money to gold, stockpiling stores of goods, buying guns and ammo, it is all vanity at best.

Stockpile on faith if you can, because Jehovah will supply us with everything else we need to survive if we have that.[/b]

Hi Juffowup-

I was not actually suggesting stockpiling. Certainly relying on Jehovah is the only way to get through the horrors that are ahead simply because we don't know what will transpire. But practical wisdom has its benefits as well.

Molly

[juffowup]

I was not actually suggesting stockpiling. Certainly relying on Jehovah is the only way to get through the horrors that are ahead simply because we don't know what will transpire. But practical wisdom has its benefits as well.
Molly[/b]

Yeah, I knew that, I was just throwing my $0.02 worth in, which adjusting for inflation, is practically worthless. :P At any rate, I think practical wisdom comes in handy in dealing with this system of things, but am skeptical that it will have utility during the great tribulation. That said, I try to apply the advice an elder gave me as a teenager, to "live like Armageddon is coming tomorrow, but plan as if it will be 20 years away." That has always struck me as a nice balance.

[Jinnvisible]

Hi Jinn

....................... The modern Chaldean doesn't come into existence until the 8th king, or the "disgusting thing" that desolates the "holy place". It would also mean that the 42 months can't even begin until the 8th king rises.

An implosion from within seems to be out of the question,[/b]

I agree Jeshurun. I will attempt be a little more succinct.

An impolsion from the inside has already occured (although it has not been seen).

Many brothers and sisters accept that the WBTS might cease to exist at some point, simply as a part of future persecutions. Go ask someone in the cong. The society can falsey attribute as much prophesy as it wants to the last century yet it doesn`t stop most from the realisation that things are going to get much stickier closer to the day (in my limited experience).

Any destruction from outside can be attributed to persecution. Yet not neccesarily as a sanctioned judgement from Christ. Obviously if Christ actually sanctions a house cleaning he will require that his people actualy realise that it is a judgement directly from him and not only some attack from the outside.

However the 8th king will enforce certain measures that will make it very difficult for Jehovah`s worshipers to even survive without contravining God`s laws.

These enforcements will very obviously be prophesy fulfilling in such a way that the WTBTS did not apprehend and hense in one stroke the Prophesy will be shown to be fulfulling whilst the WTBTS failed to prepare the people to their detriment.

So in actuallity it wouldn`t really matter if the Chaldean destroyed the WTBTS next week - so long as the WTBTS had prepared the people for what is coming.

The association of Jehovah`s witnesses could easily continue without stringent centralisation. The destruction of the WTBTS although a blow does not initeslf mean the end of the congregation. The congregations can still continue under the elders arrangement without centralization. Its the faliure of the WTBTS to understand the prophesy and protect people that will matter more. That will really cause problems with peoples faith. Hense the problems internal to Christ house are of far more concern than the destruction from outside.

In the same way that christ explained to the representative of the `discusting thing` of his day (roman procurator Pilate) that Judas` sin was greater than than Pilate`s.

[Jinnvisible]

.................................. , but there is no way to prepare for the great tribulation. Converting money to gold, stockpiling stores of goods, buying guns and am mo, it is all vanity at best.

Stockpile on faith if you can, because Jehovah will supply us with everything else we need to survive if we have that.[/b]

Remember Joseph of egypt. His insight into future events prevented much suffering. He was the faithful and wise steward of the king.

It is true that dieing faithfull to God is more important than saving your own neck temporarily, yet Jehovah God has related information through the prophets to help prepare for the GT, infomation that has not been disseminated, due actualy to the vainity of the steward.


Book of Genesis :

Now therefore let Pharaoh look out a man discreet and wise, and set him over the land of Egypt. Let Pharaoh do this, and let him appoint officers over the land, and take up the fifth part of the land of Egypt in the seven plenteous years

[Shibboleth]

Some would disagree with me, but I believe I have a 'nose; for this. Remember when they had that big 'long shore man' strike on the East coast? Well the Society got its paper delivered, and I believe it was because of the connection now with the United Nations. Don't be so sure of the Watchtower's collapse any time soon, I believe the UN is looking at the Watchtower organization structure, closely as a 'model' for their "one world religion".[/b]

They get their paper from New England and Canadian paper companies. The UN had nothing to do with them getting paper. It is shipped via trucks. I worked for a major engineering firm that worked exclusively for the pulp and paper industry in New England. One of the Societies main pulp and paper plants they received paper from was from Madawaska, Maine and just across the bridge in Canada. The mill is called Frasier Paper.

Regards,

Shibboleth

[eyes&ears]

I'm not interested in speculating on the hows of the upcoming destruction. I used to be, but I wasn't careful about it and got having expectations that led to me thinking it's going to be one way and when it didn't turn out that way got testy with Jehovah. So now I just wait and see. I know dgibson was joking, but there is no way to prepare for the great tribulation. Converting money to gold, stockpiling stores of goods, buying guns and ammo, it is all vanity at best.

Stockpile on faith if you can, because Jehovah will supply us with everything else we need to survive if we have that.[/b]


Hi Juf,

I'm with you on this.

However, it's OKEY DOKEY for anyone to express themselves with all this if they want. Just not my cup of coffee :ban_dance01: :cupasoup: :rolleyes:

For me, it makes my mind hurt, so I am of the opinion as long as I make sure of all things epecially making sure it is Jehovah's voice I am listening to for direction, and following the leadings of his HS, I will be OKEY DOKEY.

I would imagine when Jehovah starts things really rolling, we BETTER know what we need to know so we are not running around like dumb chickens with no heads because we did not STAY IN JEHOVAH'S WORD and listen to what he was TELLING US.

I have to make sure my EYES AND EARS are focused on Jehovah, so I am not misled ever again, running after something that is not SO.

I am now with Jehovah's help and that of his HS and Son in CONTROL OF MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY FATHER. I WILL NOT GIVE THIS CONTROL TO ANYONE ELSE EVER AGAIN.

OVER AND OUT WITH LOTS OF LOVE TO EVERYONE

HOLD ON TIGHT

WE ARE IN FOR SOME HEAVY STUFF IF JEHOVAH ALLOWS US TO LIVE TO SEE IT AND/OR LIVE THROUGH IT.

PRAISE JAH AND HIS SON.


Eyes & Ears