A Remark

[Nash]

Hello Everybody! B)

Some time ago (over a year, now), a pioneer elder made the following comment while we were in field service:

"Pioneers are special to Jehovah."

He may have even qualified the word "special" with the word "very."

What do you think of such a comment?

Nash

[DoubtingThomas]

Doesn't sound like a very humble comment from a very humble servant of God to me (especially since it was a Pioneer blowing his own horn, and not coming from someone else). While it might be true that a Pioneer is special to Jehovah, isn't it true that we are ALL very "special" to Jehovah. But I don't know if I would go around telling others that I was more "special" to Jehovah than one who was not in a position to Pioneer like I could. I bet hearing that comment must have really turned your stomach, especially if you enjoy preaching the Good News, and want to tell as many as possible about Jehovah, but perhaps were not in a position to do as much as this Pioneer Elder. But Jah does know every hair on our heads. So he certainly is interested in us as individual servants of his. But does He value one in a position to Pioneer over one who is not able to do so? That is certainly not a scriptural thought. Did he love the widow who dropped in only 2 coins of small value any less than one who was able to do more? Was she any less "special"? If I heard a Pioneer Elder make a comment like that, I would really be turned off to that person. Perhaps it was just a momentary lapse in common sense on that persons part? I don't know. But it sounds more like the "works" based rather than "faith" based ideaology that so many of our brothers and sisters have. They are trying to work their way into the Kingdom.

[Sketch]

Without knowing the context, I can't rightly say. I do think Jehovahs considers pioneers special, even "Very" special. But then, so are sparrows - and everything in between. So, knowing what I do, I'd take it with a grain of salt....

[Jinnvisible]

Hello Everybody! B)

Some time ago (over a year, now), a pioneer elder made the following comment while we were in field service:

"Pioneers are special to Jehovah."

He may have even qualified the word "special" with the word "very."

What do you think of such a comment?

Nash[/b]

Its weird.

The society has in the past councelled against over familiarity in prayer. So if there was a group meeting they should not pray `Good afternoon Jehovah`. This might seem obvious to some people yet maybe not everyone.

Stating that `Pioneers are special to Jehovah` is really over familiarity in the same way. The apostles held a very important position toward the congregations in the 1st century, more important perhaps than any other position since then. Can you imagine (or actualy find anywhere) in scripture such a statement from an apostle stating that, `apostles are special to Jehovah ?` It is an advertisment for elitism.

Stating `I feel blessed to Pioneer` seems entirely different though.

Perhaps because it is a person speaking for what they feel themselves, rather than what they presume about God.

[stayawake]

Without knowing the context, I can't rightly say. I do think Jehovahs considers pioneers special, even "Very" special. But then, so are sparrows - and everything in between. So, knowing what I do, I'd take it with a grain of salt....[/b]


Jesus said, in Matt 6:2 , when one is doing a fine work, not to blow the trumpet ahead of you as to what one is doing, because then that is your reward...
We have pioneers, aux pioneers, and special pioneers. Well i guess every corperation has a ladder to climb
Little do those that are climbing that ladder,see just how prescious that little widow with the two coins was to Jehovah.
She was so special that it's been 2,000 years ,and Jah seen to it that we all would know about it
love stayawake

[watchman]

If pioneers are "special to Jehovah," does that mean that special pioneers are extra special to Jehovah?

Hmmm, and how does it work with auxillary pioneers? Maybe they are only special to Jehovah on the months they auxillary. <_<

[barry]

Several years before getting married I was going with a special pioneer. She was feeling very happy and she had a lot of friends. One of these a CO and his wife advised her to stop seeing me because I was just a regular publisher and if we would marry it was possible that she would quit pioneering. They advised her to go with a pioneer so she could continue pioneering.
When she told me, I felt terrible I was &#39;just a regular publisher&#39;.

Barry

PS She did not listen to the advice and continued to follow her heart. Sadly after some time we realised we did not match to marry.

[Shibboleth]

If pioneers are "special to Jehovah," does that mean that special pioneers are extra special to Jehovah?

Hmmm, and how does it work with auxillary pioneers? Maybe they are only special to Jehovah on the months they auxillary. <_<[/b]

haha

I would have said :

No. You are a regular pioneer. Special pioneers are more special to Jehovah since they are rarer then fine gold.

[Berean]

That reminds me of the illustration Jesus spoke, in Luke 18:9-14:

But he spoke this illustration also to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and who considered the rest as nothing: "Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and began to pray these things to himself, &#39;O God, I thank you I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give the tenth of all things I acquire.&#39; But the tax collector standing at a distance was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward, but kept beating his breast, saying, &#39;O God, be gracious to me a sinner.&#39; I tell you, This man went down to his home proved more righteous than that man; because everyone that exalts himself will be humiliated, but he that humbles himself will be exalted."

This shows us that humble publishers are way more special to God than pioneers that toot their own horn.

[Shibboleth]

I relate to the tax collector.

[juffowup]

I&#39;m going to have to agree to the ones asking for context. I could go either way with this. Maybe it was in the context of encouraging Nash to reach out and make room for pioneering himself. I don&#39;t know. I will say, as a former pioneer, it is exhausting, often thankless work that if one doesn&#39;t take a lot of spiritual care of oneself, will burn out and become jaded. There were many quips and quotes that CO&#39;s and DO&#39;s gave us through the years to keep our self-image pumped up and make us feel good about ourselves and keep us motivated and encouraged.

I don&#39;t know there is anything wrong with that, but sharing some of this stuff with non-pioneers could be seen as insufferable. This is actually reminding me of my pioneer school experiences, which would make good fodder for a topic.

[Shibboleth]

I have alot of respect for people who pioneer. I could never do it.

You are right juffowup. It seems to be a thankless task. I have only auxilary pioneered once in my 20 years of being baptized and it was 6 months after I had been baptized. I hated every minute of it. I have on numerous times in the past gotten around 20 hours in a month. But I never pioneered again after that one time. My sister on the other hand was a regular pioneer for about 7 years. It drove her totally out of the truth.

Regards,

Shibboleth

[Cephalon]

Pioneer? what&#39;s that? just joking.
I have never pioneered not even auxilliary, but I have lot of respect and admiration for anyone who has/had. It&#39;s not an easy thing, one has to make lot of sacrifices in their lives to pioneer. Any pioneer out there, you have my respect and my sincere encouragements, because me with my average 7-8 hours a month could never be one.

Sorry Nash if I deviate from the subject.

[Nambo]

Probably not the pioneers fault for having this viewpoint, its a result of the caste sytem the society operates, you can see this in the way it tends to be the pioneers that get invited around for dinner more.
I only aux pioneered once, but did do a lot of work on the min for a single full time working man, so used to get the same good treatment.

Thing is, when I changed congregations, allthough spiritual myself, I used to wish to help encourage those who where weak in the truth to enjoy it more and make it more of thier lives, so I would arrange walks in the countryside etc and used to invite a lot of the weak ones, I was then told, "Why are you inviting them?, you should just invite the pioneers"

I guess the other end of this view point is the untouchables, those who do less than 10 hours in the field service and so who are not going to get through armaggedon, if Jehovah doesnt want them, niether do I mentallity.

When I was in I decided even if I could get my hours to 90 a month I would never pioneer.

Used to make me so sad and feel so unwanted and unapreatiated when I used to read in the Watchtower, "Sisters should marry Pioneers and Ministerial servants", when you are desperately lonely and doing all you can for Jehovah and you are told he does not consider you worthy to even enjoy the basic human right of marriage.

And when I think of the many, many worldly girls I turned down for Jehovah, and now Iam too old I must live out the rest of my life totally alone, reminds me of the reason I commited spiritual suicide and left the truth, waiting for Jehovah to do the fleshly part for me.

[Kenneth]

I recall a number of years ago a brother telling me that pioneers will get more land in the new system due to their hard work in this one. That&#39;s a bit unfair on those who are unable to pioneer due to the fact they maybe disabled have a family or are to frail physically or mentally to do so. I was a pioneer my earlier days as A JW does that mean I&#39;m going to get a bit extra than those who haven&#39;t pioneered.

Pioneers are special to Jehovah." Where does it say so in scripture?

I will tell you what&#39;s special to Jehovah

"Truly I say to YOU that this poor widow dropped in more than all those dropping money into the treasury chests; for they all dropped in out of their surplus, but she, out of her want, dropped in all of what she had, her whole living."

The Beauty of Whole-Souled Service, pioneer or not.

Kenneth

[eyes&ears]

This is what I think about such comments:

:icon_twisted: :fight.sml: :icon_evil: :ranting2: :icon_eek: :boom01: :benou: :argue: :blbl: :boks:

Proverbs 26:4 & 5


Do not answer anyone STUPID according to his FOOLISHNESS that you yourself also may not become equal to him.

Answer someone STUPID according to his foolishness, that he may not become someone wise in his own eyes.

Eyes & Ears

[Shibboleth]

Used to make me so sad and feel so unwanted and unapreatiated when I used to read in the Watchtower, "Sisters should marry Pioneers and Ministerial servants", when you are desperately lonely and doing all you can for Jehovah and you are told he does not consider you worthy to even enjoy the basic human right of marriage.

And when I think of the many, many worldly girls I turned down for Jehovah, and now Iam too old I must live out the rest of my life totally alone, reminds me of the reason I commited spiritual suicide and left the truth, waiting for Jehovah to do the fleshly part for me.[/b]

I am right there with you brother.

I was over at a brother and sister&#39;s house this weekend to watch the Pats/Chargers game (Yay Pats!) and they drilled me hard. Well not really drilled but just wanted to get to know me better. They have only been in the truth since 2001, so they did not know what it was like to grow up in it. They wondered why I was not married. I told them that I felt I wasn&#39;t ready for it. I was to immature and had other issues and I was still trying to find myself. At 35 years old and almost 36 I feel I am ready but now I am at that age where 90% of the sisters who are not married are 18-24 and wouldn&#39;t even give me a second look cause I am not a MS or a pioneer and because of my age. Needless to say I probably bring it on myself since I am an introvert when it comes to talking with sisters. For some reason I have no problems whatsoever talking to a worldly girl and asking her out, but when it comes to sisters I feel I am not worthy enough because I am not a pioneer or MS.

Anyway I feel I did the right thing in getting secondary education and doing what I do. I am proud of my accomplishments and when people ask me at the hall I don&#39;t cream coat it I tell them flat out why I never pioneered.

Regards,

Shibboleth

[juffowup]

It&#39;s common knowledge that pioneers get three extra days of everlasting life in the new system for each year of full time service. :-)

[Nash]

Hi folks. :icon_cool:

Thanks for all your comments on this thread.

As I recall more clearly, the comment was not made during field service, but after a meeting (although we were not in the Kingdom Hall when the comment was uttered).

In any case, there was not really a context - although this elder does encourage everyone to pioneer - I guess that was what he was doing at the time.

That being said, this elder has gotten plenty of folks upset by his attitude. He is the abrasive type and is not really a humble individual.

Needless to say, when I heard that comment, I was floored, so to speak. Since Jehovah is not a partial God, I doubt that he views pioneers as more special than everyone else.

Don&#39;t get the wrong impression, here. I don&#39;t think pioneering is bad. In fact, I have a lot of respect for pioneers who are genuine, because it is very self-sacrificing indeed, if done for the right reasons.

The fact of the matter is that pioneering is not found in the scriptures (and this fact was admitted by a District Overseer at a Circuit Assembly that I had attended). Pioneering is a measure of circumstances, not spirituality. However, the Society, directly or indirectly has trurned pioneering into some sort of a status symbol. And, for all those who have been shafted because of the whole &#39;pioneers should marry pioneers&#39; issue, well, sad to say, I have taken that bullet as well. This is a doctrine of man that has been fabricated by the Society and is clearly not scriptural at all. I doubt that the Society realizes the amount of hurt that it has caused people with this &#39;doctrine of man.&#39; Well, in any case, Jehovah will definitely ask for an accounting with the individuals responsible for causing hurt.

Nash

[Nambo]

<div class='quotemain'>Used to make me so sad and feel so unwanted and unapreatiated when I used to read in the Watchtower, "Sisters should marry Pioneers and Ministerial servants", when you are desperately lonely and doing all you can for Jehovah and you are told he does not consider you worthy to even enjoy the basic human right of marriage.

And when I think of the many, many worldly girls I turned down for Jehovah, and now Iam too old I must live out the rest of my life totally alone, reminds me of the reason I commited spiritual suicide and left the truth, waiting for Jehovah to do the fleshly part for me.[/b]

I am right there with you brother.

I was over at a brother and sister&#39;s house this weekend to watch the Pats/Chargers game (Yay Pats!) and they drilled me hard. Well not really drilled but just wanted to get to know me better. They have only been in the truth since 2001, so they did not know what it was like to grow up in it. They wondered why I was not married. I told them that I felt I wasn&#39;t ready for it. I was to immature and had other issues and I was still trying to find myself. At 35 years old and almost 36 I feel I am ready but now I am at that age where 90% of the sisters who are not married are 18-24 and wouldn&#39;t even give me a second look cause I am not a MS or a pioneer and because of my age. Needless to say I probably bring it on myself since I am an introvert when it comes to talking with sisters. For some reason I have no problems whatsoever talking to a worldly girl and asking her out, but when it comes to sisters I feel I am not worthy enough because I am not a pioneer or MS.

Anyway I feel I did the right thing in getting secondary education and doing what I do. I am proud of my accomplishments and when people ask me at the hall I don&#39;t cream coat it I tell them flat out why I never pioneered.

Regards,

Shibboleth
[/b][/quote]

Shibboleth Brother, dont give up yet, for a start age doent matter in the Truth the way it does in the World as everyone kows within afew years we will all be young together anyway.

There was a whole gang of us Brothers who where single, One of them, even though in his forties has met somebody and is married.
The other seem to be having a whale of a time having come to the attention of a nationwide network of lonely single sisters who enjoy a bit of social intercourse with them.

Jehovah wants us to be happy as well, I was 35 when I met a 20 year old Sister who became the only real Love of my life, the circumstances of our meeting where a likely indication that Jehovah had something to do with it.
She was a Pioneer and I wasnt.
When it was looking serious however, one of the Elders from my congregation persuaded her that she would only be doing Jehovahs will if she married a Pioneer so she finished it.
A nice Elder from my cong did travel up to her cong to point out what a Spiritual Brother I was and that as a house-owner with a good job she would never have to work and so could allways Pioneer.
She tried to get me back but the experience had brought into play the issues I have about relationships from an abused Childhood and I rejected her, something I have regreted ever since. She was what waa known as "the most attractive Sister in the circuit", isnt every gift from Jehovah perfect?

Just be yourself Shibboleth, obviously you dont want to come across as worldly to a sister whereas to a worldly girl it would make no odds, but remember these sisters are Human Beings just like you are, they are probably not as perfect as you might think they are.
Besides, havnt you learnt from this site that its your Love of Jehovah and desire for his Kingdom that counts, not your position in the hiracy of the Watchtower Society.

Besides, there are many lonely sisters older than you state, maybe in neighbouring congs, dont whatever you do act desperate, just be happily naturally interested in them, ie find yourself unable to not break into a smile when you catch thier eye.

[Sketch]

...but when it comes to sisters I feel I am not worthy enough because I am not a pioneer or MS.[/b]

HEY Shibby!!

I grew up relatively close to NY, so ALL the "desirable" sisters - meaning they were good looking - only wanted to date bethelites... a good thing too... because most of those sisters have since shown their true egotistical colors... and they have their elder-husbands, and they are elder wives... but thats about about all they are... i&#39;ve never been a servant, don&#39;t WANT to be an elder... and I thought ALL the sisters just wanted another label on their husbands.... until I met MY wife...

my wife and i were set up by mutual friends... we went out and instantly hated eachother... she was 1/2-hour late and didn&#39;t care (let alone call) and I&#39;m very rigid on time (especially when people don&#39;t care)... I figured she was the same as all the others... we didn&#39;t talk to eachother after that 1st date for 6 or 8 months.... then, we started seeing more and more of eachother in the circle of friends we had... we started out as friends... she dated others, I dated others, then we would always talk to eachother about how we were doing, who we were dating, and the friendship grew from there... it took about 4 years, but she got tired of running away from me... of course, by then, I got tired of chasing her and was still looking elsewhere... we will be married for 6 years in May... things have been rough from time to time, but She&#39;s always been there for me, and me for her... shes my world and she&#39;s one of the few people in the world that actually beieves in me... regardless of what bird-brained ideas i come up with...

So, stick and move and keep going... you usually find what you&#39;re looking for when you stop looking for it.... I know it sounds stupid... I didn&#39;t understand what that meant until it happened to me...

[Shibboleth]

hey Sketch, thanks. :icon_razz:

I stopped looking long ago. Being a bachelor makes me to content. What&#39;s so funny about my situation is that I have gone from the popular guy who likes to have fun to the introverted guy who likes to hang out at home with his cats and watch tv and play video games.