Judgment At The House Of God

[Alex]

The following scripture has been applied by the Watchtower to events of 1918/19 to prove the anointed were inspected by Christ and a small number passed the test to be appointed as the 'faithful and discreet slave'.

However, according to e-watchman the inspection of the house of God has not taken place yet and is a future event.

1 Peter 4:17 reads:

For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God?

Peter's letter was penned in the first century. What did he mean by his words. 'for it is the appointed time'?

Does this not seem to indicate there was a judgment of the anointed to take place imminently, during the first century?

How could the year 1918 or even a future time from now be viewed as the nearness of an appointed time?

How are we to understand the time period these words seem to point to?

Another thought, were not the congregations mentioned in Revelation judged by Christ. a first century inspection and judgment? Is this what Peter was referring to?

I would appreciate your thoughts and reasonings on this.

Brotherly affection to all, Alex.

[James]

1 Peter 4:17 reads:

For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God?


Does this not seem to indicate there was a judgment of the anointed to take place imminently, during the first century?[/b]


Hi Alex, good to hear from you again.

That is an interesting thought.
As we examine different translations, we can get a better sense of Peters' statement.

(KJV)'For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

(NIV) For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

(NLT) For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin with God’s household. And if judgment begins with us, what terrible fate awaits those who have never obeyed God’s Good News?

(NWT)'For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God.

So it seems Peter was referring to his contemporaries and this is verified in his opening words.
(1Peter 1:1,2)Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the temporary residents scattered about in Pon′tus, Ga·la′ti·a, Cap·pa·do′ci·a, Asia, and Bi·thyn′i·a, to the ones chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, with sanctification by the spirit, for the purpose of their being obedient and sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ.

agape,
James

[SlaveForJah]

Hello Brothers,

It is indeed good to see you again, Alex.

I believe that the text is speaking, in it's immediacy, of the imminent destruction of Jerusalem, as the book was written most likely before 65ad. My question though, is this: Does the passage's primary, initial application to the coming imperiling of Jerusalem preclude it from having a broader, more all encompassing application with the coming of the Lord's day? I tend to think in these terms.

Hope this helps...and I am looking forward to more input from others.

Agape

SlaveForJah

[Molly]

Hello Brothers,
It is indeed good to see you again, Alex.
I believe that the text is speaking, in it's immediacy, of the imminent destruction of Jerusalem, as the book was written most likely before 65ad. My question though, is this: Does the passage's primary, initial application to the coming imperiling of Jerusalem preclude it from having a broader, more all encompassing application with the coming of the Lord's day? I tend to think in these terms.
Hope this helps...and I am looking forward to more input from others.
Agape
SlaveForJah[/b]

Perhaps you could define what you mean by "broader, more all encompassing application."

Molly

[watchman]

"An appointed time" means that there is a fixed time during which the congregation of believers are subjected to Christ's inspection. In the first century Peter indicated that it was then the appointed time, however prophecy indicates that there is also a specific appointed time for the judgment of the house of God. In a general way all anointed Christians are individually judged by God as to their being suitable for entry into the kingdom. However, the actual appointed time has to do with Christ making a definitive judgment as regards the entire congregation of anointed and non-anointed Christians. Paul referred both to an ongoing judgment and a future, definitive judgment when he wrote at "And they will certainly become mine," Jehovah of armies has said, "at the day when I am producing a special property."

Obviously, the Jews in the first century did not become Jehovah's special property. But at the coming of Christ those who endure the refining process do. That is when the sons of the kingdom are actually given the kingdom. That is how they become Jehovah's "special property."

Watchtman

</span></span>

[SlaveForJah]

<div class='quotemain'>Hello Brothers,
It is indeed good to see you again, Alex.
I believe that the text is speaking, in it&#39;s immediacy, of the imminent destruction of Jerusalem, as the book was written most likely before 65ad. My question though, is this: Does the passage&#39;s primary, initial application to the coming imperiling of Jerusalem preclude it from having a broader, more all encompassing application with the coming of the Lord&#39;s day? I tend to think in these terms.
Hope this helps...and I am looking forward to more input from others.
Agape
SlaveForJah[/b]

Perhaps you could define what you mean by "broader, more all encompassing application."

Molly
[/b][/quote]

Hello Molly and other Threadweavers,

May Jehovah&#39;s Peace be upon you this day.

Molly, in speaking of a "broader, more all encompassing application", I was referencing the idea that Peter was speaking, at least initially to the generation just prior to the occupation and eventual destruction of Jersualem and it&#39;s Temple. But, that the subject about which he was speaking, namely the judgement beginning with God&#39;s house would also apply to a larger group than just those "temporary residents scattered about in Pon´tus, Ga·la´ti·a, Cap·pa·do´ci·a, Asia, and Bi·thyn´i·a." - 1Peter 1:1

This seems evident to me in remainder of chapter 1. In verse 5 Peter re-addresses those to whom he was speaking, namely those "who are being [b]at the revelation of Jesus Christ." So, I DO believe that Peter was speaking of the impending desolation of 1st Century Jerusalem, but that in a "broader, more all encompassing application" he was speaking to ALL CHRISTIANS, that they (we) might "As obedient children, quit being fashioned according to the desires YOU formerly had in YOUR ignorance, 15 but, in accord with the Holy One who called YOU, do YOU also become holy yourselves in all [YOUR] conduct." - 1Peter 1:14,15

It just seems to make sense to me that Peter would not have gone to such lengths to speak about &#39;keeping our senses&#39;, &#39;bracing up our minds&#39;, &#39;setting our hope&#39;, &#39;being safeguarded through faith&#39; until "the revelation of Jesus Christ" "in the last period of time" if he were only referrencing a period of 3 years of waiting until that judgement and revelation would be complete. I feel like he had something of a larger scope in mind, the endurance of the body as a whole throughout the centuries.

Does this make sense?

Agape

SlaveForJah

[Molly]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Hello Brothers,
It is indeed good to see you again, Alex.
I believe that the text is speaking, in it&#39;s immediacy, of the imminent destruction of Jerusalem, as the book was written most likely before 65ad. My question though, is this: Does the passage&#39;s primary, initial application to the coming imperiling of Jerusalem preclude it from having a broader, more all encompassing application with the coming of the Lord&#39;s day? I tend to think in these terms.
Hope this helps...and I am looking forward to more input from others.
Agape
SlaveForJah[/b]

Perhaps you could define what you mean by "broader, more all encompassing application."

Molly
[/b][/quote]

Hello Molly and other Threadweavers,

May Jehovah&#39;s Peace be upon you this day.

Molly, in speaking of a "broader, more all encompassing application", I was referencing the idea that Peter was speaking, at least initially to the generation just prior to the occupation and eventual destruction of Jersualem and it&#39;s Temple. But, that the subject about which he was speaking, namely the judgement beginning with God&#39;s house would also apply to a larger group than just those "temporary residents scattered about in Pon´tus, Ga·la´ti·a, Cap·pa·do´ci·a, Asia, and Bi·thyn´i·a." - 1Peter 1:1

This seems evident to me in remainder of chapter 1. In verse 5 Peter re-addresses those to whom he was speaking, namely those "who are being at the revelation of Jesus Christ." So, I DO believe that Peter was speaking of the impending desolation of 1st Century Jerusalem, but that in a "broader, more all encompassing application" he was speaking to ALL CHRISTIANS, that they (we) might "As obedient children, quit being fashioned according to the desires YOU formerly had in YOUR ignorance, 15 but, in accord with the Holy One who called YOU, do YOU also become holy yourselves in all [YOUR] conduct." - 1Peter 1:14,15

It just seems to make sense to me that Peter would not have gone to such lengths to speak about &#39;keeping our senses&#39;, &#39;bracing up our minds&#39;, &#39;setting our hope&#39;, &#39;being safeguarded through faith&#39; until "the revelation of Jesus Christ" "in the last period of time" if he were only referrencing a period of 3 years of waiting until that judgement and revelation would be complete. I feel like he had something of a larger scope in mind, the endurance of the body as a whole throughout the centuries.

Does this make sense?

Agape

SlaveForJah

[/quote]

SlaveForJah-

That makes sense to me.

While it is counsel directed primarily towards the anointed of the first century, the applications of the counsel are good advise to any footstep follower of Christ at any time. Peter cautions us to "maintain your conduct fine among the nations," and to "suffer unjustly" for maintaining a clean consciense toward God. He promotes being zealous for doing good and hospitality. Certainly these are attributes of the new personality and not limited to just a period before judgment. I do think that some persons put on the personality and Christlike behavior as a cloak for the meetings and take the cloak off before they even get home. Peter said that Christ was to be our model. I don&#39;t think that that would mean only the anointed, then or now. Who couldn&#39;t improve their life by being more Christlike?

What I think is that this is a warning to take Peter&#39;s advice seriously and make it our way of life before we get to the time of judgment, or we will not be suitably trained to handle the hardships when they do come. The one scripture that jumps out at me is 1 Peter 4: 8: "Above all things, have intense love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins." Just something we can all work on - and it pays dividends! Just don&#39;t think that there is enough of it in the congregations these days.

Molly

[Alex]

Just wanted to thank you all for your input in reasoning on this particular topic and scripture.

Brotherly affection, Alex.

[Olm]

I got a question, why did the WT choose 1918 and 1919 as the time for judgement on themselves?

[Jeshurun]

I got a question, why did the WT choose 1918 and 1919 as the time for judgement on themselves?[/b]

I believe it is because they added 42 months of "discipline", concocted from Daniel and Revelation, to Christ&#39;s alleged arrival in October 1914 to fulfill the only negative prophecy that they will lay claim to:

Isaiah 12:1 And in that day you will be sure to say: "I shall thank you, O Jehovah, for [although] you got incensed at me, your anger gradually turned back, and you proceeded to comfort me.

[Sketch]

I got a question, why did the WT choose 1918 and 1919 as the time for judgement on themselves?[/b]

I thought it was because the officers of the WTS at the time were imprisoned for a little while... my time lines may be off...

http://www.animalswithinanimals.com/stallio/uploaded_images/airplane_steve_mccrosky-734441.jpg
/looks like I picked the wrong weeky to quit amphetamines.

[NEW HEART]

I like what Watchman said here...("Obviously, the Jews in the first century did not become Jehovah&#39;s special property. But at the coming of Christ those who endure the refining process do. That is when the sons of the kingdom are actually given the kingdom. That is how they become Jehovah&#39;s "special property.")


It appears that the refining is already being put into our hearts now even. God is giving us a new heart , those whom he is refiining at this time, and getting us ready to become his special property. He is preparing us for when Jesus comes , even before he appears. What do you think enduring the refining process means? Listening to him, and hearing his voice? He knows the hearts of those who let go of this world and let him begin to finish their training and refining at this time.

The scripture you quoted for your scripture for the day is very fitting..

<div align="center">"And in that day the deaf ones will certainly hear the words of the book, and out of the gloom and out of the darkness even the eyes of the blind ones will see. And the meek ones will certainly increase their rejoicing in Jehovah himself, and even the poor ones of mankind will be joyful in the Holy One of Israel himself..."</div>
<div align="center"> Isaiah </div>
Notice it says here, in their rejoicing in Jehovah(himself)? They come out from darkness they were once still in , from once having their eyes blinded , and their ears stopped they will begin to really hear and understand the true meaning of his word and receive instuction from Jehovah himself. He finishes their teaching because he wakes them from their blindness because they realize that only through putting their complete trust in him (alone), can their paths be made straight.


New Heart

[Jeshurun]

<div class='quotemain'>I got a question, why did the WT choose 1918 and 1919 as the time for judgement on themselves?[/b]

I thought it was because the officers of the WTS at the time were imprisoned for a little while... my time lines may be off...

http://www.animalswithinanimals.com/stallio/uploaded_images/airplane_steve_mccrosky-734441.jpg
/looks like I picked the wrong weeky to quit amphetamines.
[/b][/quote]

Oh yeah, maybe the punishment was 1919 to 1922 in the wilderness. Sure, that&#39;s it. And it was ended by the Apocalyptic Convention at Cedar Point OH, I think.

I&#39;ve been so busy trying to figure out what the Revelation really means that I&#39;ve forgotten how the old house of cards was built.

Jesh

[Nash]

Hi Sketch,

Airplane! was a fantasic movie!

Nash

[shikinah]

I found this quote on a site today and found it very interesting

Jehovah's Witnesses are lead to believe that those whom they refer to as apostates are evil and lead by Satan the devil and have nothing but hatred for the Organization. In the same issue of the Watchtower magazine as quoted above, it describes apostates as resorting "to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehoods... Such malicious opposers would tell what is not true with the intent to deceive others. The apostle Peter warned about apostates who would use 'counterfeit words,' spread 'deceptive teachings,' and 'twist the Scriptures' to their own ends."

1. Who was it that kept secret for 10 years their association with the UN?

2. Who was it that printed and distributed, "millions now living will never die"?

3. Who was it that promoted the UN's year of volunteers and their good works on the back of the Awake?

4. Who was it that previously taught that god was re-gathering literal Israel and supported Zionism?

We could go on and on, but look who's calling the kettle black here:confused:


Shikinah

http://sites.google.com/site/theocraticstudies/home/apostates