Sifted As Wheat

[SlaveForJah]

Hello everyone,

I hope everyone is having a wonderful day.

I have a question regarding a statement made in the new WT Study edition, entitled "When Christians Are Sifted As Wheat". First, I will give you the quote. Then I will ask you my question.

"How can we stand against this powerful enemy? We cannot do so in our own strength. Satan is stronger than we are; however, we know that Jehovah is immeasurably stronger than Satan is. If we have full confidence in Jehovah, pray earnestly for the wisdom and courage to endure, and rely fully on his guidance, he will strengthen us to resist Satan's attacks."

Good counsel. But, my question is this: Is Satan stronger than us? If so, in what way? Or is this like comparing apples and oranges? I am not sure why that statement raised this question in my mind, other than I have never really asked that question before. So, I am looking for any help from the brothers and sisters here.

Thank you in advance. As usual, Scriptural support would be appreciated.

Agape

SlaveForJah

[Sketch]

But, my question is this: Is Satan stronger than us? If so, in what way?[/b]

my first opinon was to say yes, assuming the person did not have help from Jehovah.... however, Job received no help from Jehovah (that I know of) and he was able to give Satan the stiff-arm... so this is a good question...

[SlaveForJah]

<div class='quotemain'>But, my question is this: Is Satan stronger than us? If so, in what way?[/b]

my first opinon was to say yes, assuming the person did not have help from Jehovah.... however, Job received no help from Jehovah (that I know of) and he was able to give Satan the stiff-arm... so this is a good question...
[/b][/quote]

Hello again Sketch,

Jah&#39;s blessings. Thank you for starting things off for us.

My first opinion was to say "yes" as well. But, this was something I realized I had never even really considered. So, I had to ask. Thanks for bringing up Job. I believe you are correct, that Jehovah removed himself from the situation, so to speak, and allowed Satan free reign with Job, so long as he did not take his life. It would seem that Job may have received strength from Jehovah through Elihu and his wise words. Though, I am not sure that Elihu acted as a conduit for Jehovah&#39;s wisdom; I would suppose it was more Elihu&#39;s faithfulness coming to the fore than that of Jehovah using Elihu directly. In any event, Job did win the battle against Satan, without direct help from Jehovah God. This would lend me to believe that Satan, though powerful in a different way, is not necessarily more powerful across the board, apples for apples.

Thanks again, Sketch, for starting things off. I am curious to hear others&#39; thoughts.

Curious

SlaveForJah

[Gabriel]

Sketch see what you&#39;ve started! (Lol)

Thats an awesome question. And an even more awsome perspective of Job. Never even thought of him not recieveing help from God. Is satan more powerful than us? In general yes, because some of &#39;us&#39; are weaker than others. My take on it is that even though Job obveously had a strong faith in Jehovah, Job also had a strong awareness of himself has a man and had integreity in the values that he cultivated that we was determind not to cross. Does that make sence? He was determind not to forsake his own moral principles and the knowledge that he had about God. THEREFORE THIS ALONE WENT A LONG WAY in job&#39;s testing.

However, many of us are still trying to figure out who we are and to developing morals and standerds thats in harmony with God&#39;s word. Those who are struggling in this process obveously it would be very easy for satan to "sift them as wheat". Others, with Job like personalies, would give satan a very difficult challenge indeed. This brings to mind that scripture where Jehovah promises that he "wouldnt allow us to be tested beyond what we could bare" Perhaps Jehovah knew that Job had the faith and integrety needed to endure such a firey test. Notice that God himself told satan that Job was a man "upright, fearing God, and turning aside from bad" Also Jehovah readily ackowldeged that "There was NO ONE like him".

So not everyone has this tested quality and therefore Jehovah would have to step in and monitor the situation more closely than what he probably would otherwise. Ok...Thats it. Im just rambling now.

[Jinnvisible]

Consider.

An angel once destroyed <strike>144 000</strike> (185 000 [c/o James]) soldiers with apparent relative ease. Unless there are either preventative restrictions or satan has a slightly different intent he would just go about snuffing people out 1,2,3,4,5 ect. 10 a second or ad nausium.

Satan wants worshipers, his problem is that he will not be able to keep his worshippers from expiring. You could say he isn`t powerfull enough to keep them alive, sin and die.

Hense he isn`t powerfull enough to ultimately fulfill his intentions.

The saying `information is power` is a true saying. Therefore God has provided enough of the right kind of information to allow a human to prevail over the intentions of the satan god.

So we might understand that spirit beings might be more powerfull than humans in thier form yet with the right knowledge humans can avoid the influence of thier power.

In the same way that you might think of a woodchuck as not being `stronger` than a tree. If you kicked and punched a little woodchuck you would certainly hurt the little ugly buck tooth troublemaker however if you kicked and punched a tree you wouldn`t hurt the tree. Yet if the determined little woodchuck gnaws away in the right place the tree will come down.

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/6/11/1/f_4226m_4b4ee1f.gif

[SlaveForJah]

Consider.

An angel once destroyed 144 000 soldiers with apparent relative ease. Unless there are either preventative restrictions or satan has a slightly different intent he would just go about snuffing people out 1,2,3,4,5 ect. 10 a second or ad nausium.

Satan wants worshipers, his problem is that he will not be able to keep his worshippers from expiring. You could say he isn`t powerfull enough to keep them alive, sin and die.

Hense he isn`t powerfull enough to ultimately fulfill his intentions.

The saying information is power is a true saying. Therefore God has provided enough of the right kind of information to allow a human to prevail over the intentions of the satan god.

So we might understand that spirit beings might be more powerfull than humans in thier form yet with the right knowledge humans can avoid the influence of thier power.

In the same way that you might think of a woodchuck as not being `stronger` than a tree. If you kicked and punched a little woodchuck you would certainly hurt the little ugly buck tooth troublemaker however if you kicked and punched a tree you wouldn`t hurt the tree. Yet if the determined little woodchuck gnaws away in the right place the tree will come down.[/b]

Hullo Jinn,

Nice woodchuck analogy. It is this sort of thought that I was considering as well.

For instance, Jacob once wrestled with an angel, and the angel was not able to prevail, so he bruised Jacob&#39;s hip. Alternately, the angel of death slew all the firstborn in Egypt, and another caused the demise of the full camp of the Assyrian army. So, was Jacob merely an exceptionally strong man, and the Egyptian firstborn exceptionally weak?

I dont believe Satan&#39;s strength, as a spirit creature, lies along the lines of sheer power. Paris was no physical match for Achilles. But when Paris&#39; arrow flew straight and true to its target, the stronger man was defeated. Paul warned of our being deceived, like Eve, through Satan&#39;s CUNNING. I think therein lies his power. His relentlessness and his tenacity along with his deceptions are bigger threats to us than is his sheer power. Thus, using Achilles as an example of not viewing ourselves as so great, we should do that which he would not, and that is we should put on our armor...the complete suit of armor from God. This way we may be able to quench Satan&#39;s burning missiles.

Take up the large shield of faith!

SlaveForJah

[James]

Hi SlaveForJah,

Is Satan more powerful than us(humans)? Without a doubt-yes.

As Jinnvisible mentioned(although it was not 144,000), I believe he was referring to 2Kings 19:35 &#39;And it came about on that night that the angel of Jehovah proceeded to go out and strike down a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the camp of the As·syr′i·ans. When people rose up early in the morning, why, there all of them were dead carcasses.&#39;

Also as mentioned in Matthew 11:11 &#39;Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.&#39;

What I believe, as brought out in Job, is that Satan and his demons are constrained, they can only go so far in their dealings with man.
Jehovah has set their limits in what they can directly do to men.
Now if they get men to do their bidding by killing each other through wars, crime, envies, etc..., that is how they use their power.
Satan needs people alive to &#39;prove his point&#39;, that man would not serve Jehovah unless he was getting something in return. Job 1:9,10 &#39;At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him...&#39;

agape brother,
James

[Sketch]

<div align="center">http://chaplinscomedyclub.com/hans_franz.jpg</div>

a bunch of girlie-man....

[SlaveForJah]

<div align="center">http://chaplinscomedyclub.com/hans_franz.jpg

a bunch of girlie-man....[/b][/quote]

Funny, Sketch...

I was actually going to use Danny DeVito and Arnold Schwarzenegger in my analogy instead of Paris and Achilles. Great minds think alike, I suppose.

"I am Hans." "Und I am Franz." Great skit, by the way. We&#39;re here to pump...you up!!!

SlaveForJah

[Reader]

Just some quick notes, because I am in a hurry. This is an interesting topic.

Spirit creatures are completely different from us, in a very real way. They are not energy beings, or shape-shifters based upon the physics of ourselves and our universe. For them to exist before the universe, it requires very different form of life, something that our physicists have never seen, or theorized about.

When Jacob wrestled with the angel, he was in human form. (actually they both were) That makes for a pretty even match.

When the Egyptians and the Assyrians were killed en masse, the executer was following orders from Jehovah. No where else do we see such mass killings. Perhaps that power was from Jehovah, and angels do not possess it naturally.

Adam and Jesus both faced Satan alone. Although both perfect, the outcome was different for each of them.

Our final test is as if by fire, to determine whether we built out of straw or gold. If we were really testing Jehovah&#39;s strength against Satan&#39;s, Satan would cry "No fair." As we stand, we will be tested as to whether our belief that Jehovah will deliver us from this evil one is strong enough to overcome the immense pressure foisted upon us, or whether it isn&#39;t. If Jehovah stepped in a gave us a push up, that would be cheating.

Reader

[scriptures]

The first that comes to my mind was Jesus, as a man he was tempted but he overcame Satan. He used scriptures to resist Satan.