Chapter 19 - Jeremiah

When I consider the history of the Jewish people and all of the terrible attacks against them as a people, it is a well known part of human history and is something that can be described as astonishing. I think of how vulnerable they were and are without Jehovah’s protection. One sister, who claimed to be anointed, pointed out to me that the reason that Satan still wants to annihilate the Jewish people is because their existence is proof of the Bible’s truthfulness and I think that is probably one important reason. And, considering efforts to wipe out Jewish people as recorded in the scriptures as well as history (and even the anti-semitism that exists today), when I read the following scripture, I’m helped to understand the magnitude of what is coming for Jehovah’s people today. Here is a quote from Chapter 19:

”How does Jehovah intend to discipline his ignorant slave and purge the wicked men from their midst? Jehovah answers: ‘“This is what Jehovah of armies says: ‘Here I am sending against them the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, and I will make them like rotten figs that are so bad they cannot be eaten. And I will pursue them with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence, and I will make them an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth, and a curse, and an object of astonishment, something to whistle at, and a reproach among all the nations to which I disperse them, because they have not listened to my words that I sent to them with my servants the prophets,’ declares Jehovah, ‘sending them again and again.’” (Jeremiah 29:17-19)

The intent of Jehovah’s judgment is that the men who have dishonored the name of Jehovah will no longer have the privilege of calling upon it—even as Jeremiah 44:26 states: ‘“Here I swear by my own great name,’ says Jehovah, ‘that my name will no longer be called on in an oath by any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt who says, ‘As surely as the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is alive!’”

As has already been established in this chapter, and surely none of Jehovah’s Witnesses will dispute this fact, the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their Watchtower Society are inseparably linked to the name of God. ……What does matter is that God long ago foretold that his name would be associated with a particular group of men “in the final part of the days.”

And as a consequence of those men falsely prophesying in God’s sacred name, abusing the prestige and authority of that name, God will hold an accounting and ultimately remove his name from their mouths.”
 
When I consider the history of the Jewish people and all of the terrible attacks against them as a people, it is a well known part of human history and is something that can be described as astonishing. I think of how vulnerable they were and are without Jehovah’s protection. One sister, who claimed to be anointed, pointed out to me that the reason that Satan still wants to annihilate the Jewish people is because their existence is proof of the Bible’s truthfulness and I think that is probably one important reason. And, considering efforts to wipe out Jewish people as recorded in the scriptures as well as history (and even the anti-semitism that exists today), when I read the following scripture, I’m helped to understand the magnitude of what is coming for Jehovah’s people today. Here is a quote from Chapter 19:

Can I offer a different viewpoint
Perhaps Satan uses the Jewish people as a once "chosen race" to make a mockery of the scriptures and Jehovah. After all they appear to control the banks/money around the world. Hollywood is owned by Jews along with their perversions as is the US senate by means of backhanders (see Paul Craig Roberts) and 9/11 had some Israeli connections.
I'll probably be shot down in flames but that's my take🤪
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
In order to establish truth, one first has to have the mental wherewithal to reason. As we see with “flat earth” thinkers, fact does not necessarily need to establish the ‘truth’ of the matter for them. Neither is it that fact does not exist as proof, but that it can be over ridden by belief that is based upon nothing more than ignorance through an obtuse refusal, due to personal desire to reason; the block usually buried in some early mental mind-set.

In essence, this is what we see in watchtower and it’s captives - scriptural “flat-earthers” rather than apostates; though that true apostate element seems set to grow all the more as time passes. Thus it is for those honest hearted ones whom accept truth regardless of the personal set-backs that honest appraisal often demands, are able to see truth clearly as reasoning costs them nothing in pride or selfish desire. There is no need to “make an agreement with the grave” - thus no barrier to humility.

The last great barrier to faith - death - stands as an equaliser to all. There must be many in watchtower, perhaps like the thief dying next to Christ, who though not understanding fully the why and wherefore, recognise that this life is a facade, and not the real thing; and though even without understanding, will be able to humbly accept truth when the time comes, because of appreciating nothing more that the lie as presented by watchtower has no truth in it.

I think I led my own life that way whilst still in watchtower. Their garment of truth never fitted for me. There was always a button missing and the stitching was always unravelling. Though I was as arrogant as the next brother in playing the watchtower game, It seemed to me in retrospect that talking the talk was of no value whatsoever. It was always and is only, about walking the walk in one‘s heart. I guess that is why so many will walk out of watchtower with no problem when the time comes.
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Eclesiastes 1: 16-18 💙
 
SusanB said:
When I consider the history of the Jewish people and all of the terrible attacks against them as a people, it is a well known part of human history and is something that can be described as astonishing. I think of how vulnerable they were and are without Jehovah’s protection. One sister, who claimed to be anointed, pointed out to me that the reason that Satan still wants to annihilate the Jewish people is because their existence is proof of the Bible’s truthfulness and I think that is probably one important reason. And, considering efforts to wipe out Jewish people as recorded in the scriptures as well as history (and even the anti-semitism that exists today), when I read the following scripture, I’m helped to understand the magnitude of what is coming for Jehovah’s people today. Here is a quote from Chapter 19:

”How does Jehovah intend to discipline his ignorant slave and purge the wicked men from their midst? Jehovah answers: ‘“This is what Jehovah of armies says: ‘Here I am sending against them the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, and I will make them like rotten figs that are so bad they cannot be eaten. And I will pursue them with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence, and I will make them an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth, and a curse, and an object of astonishment, something to whistle at, and a reproach among all the nations to which I disperse them, because they have not listened to my words that I sent to them with my servants the prophets,’ declares Jehovah, ‘sending them again and again.’” (Jeremiah 29:17-19)

The intent of Jehovah’s judgment is that the men who have dishonored the name of Jehovah will no longer have the privilege of calling upon it—even as Jeremiah 44:26 states: ‘“Here I swear by my own great name,’ says Jehovah, ‘that my name will no longer be called on in an oath by any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt who says, ‘As surely as the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is alive!’”

As has already been established in this chapter, and surely none of Jehovah’s Witnesses will dispute this fact, the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their Watchtower Society are inseparably linked to the name of God. ……What does matter is that God long ago foretold that his name would be associated with a particular group of men “in the final part of the days.”

And as a consequence of those men falsely prophesying in God’s sacred name, abusing the prestige and authority of that name, God will hold an accounting and ultimately remove his name from their mouths.”
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That’s really clearly stated. Thanks. It helps me to understand in that the Jews were “dropped” as jehovah’s people when us grubby commoners were allowed access to the Word that they had been given. It’s true - Jehovah does have a people for His name in this day - yet the Jews are still persecuted and as always is their wont, bring persecution upon themselves. They cannot just live in peace. Neither those that assume upon Jehovah’s name today, or those in the past will be able to do so any more when the time comes. Only those that love the name. Those scriptures you quoted gave me that “warm fuzzy feeling” like snoopy.
 
Seadog said:
When I consider the history of the Jewish people and all of the terrible attacks against them as a people, it is a well known part of human history and is something that can be described as astonishing. I think of how vulnerable they were and are without Jehovah’s protection. One sister, who claimed to be anointed, pointed out to me that the reason that Satan still wants to annihilate the Jewish people is because their existence is proof of the Bible’s truthfulness and I think that is probably one important reason. And, considering efforts to wipe out Jewish people as recorded in the scriptures as well as history (and even the anti-semitism that exists today), when I read the following scripture, I’m helped to understand the magnitude of what is coming for Jehovah’s people today. Here is a quote from Chapter 19:

Can I offer a different viewpoint
Perhaps Satan uses the Jewish people as a once "chosen race" to make a mockery of the scriptures and Jehovah. After all they appear to control the banks/money around the world. Hollywood is owned by Jews along with their perversions as is the US senate by means of backhanders (see Paul Craig Roberts) and 9/11 had some Israeli connections.
I'll probably be shot down in flames but that's my take🤪
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Truth be told, there’s no so called Jew alive today that can claim authentic Semitic heritage.
All of Israel’s genealogical records were burned in 70 CE and the rebellious Jews that weren’t killed by the Roman army were cast to the four winds. All those living within modern day Israel’s borders are of Khazarian descent and oppress the authentic Semitic Arabs who they couldn’t kill off in the purge of 49.
For their hatred of these Arabs, they’ve made themselves the greatest “Anti Semites” around.
 
SusanB said:
efforts to wipe out Jewish people as recorded in the scriptures as well as history
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Absolutely! If it was not for Esther's bravery, Haman the remnant of the Agagites of the Amalekites sworn enemies of Israel would have put into motion a decree if sanctioned by Xerxes would annihilate the remainders of the Nation! Thinking on about Israel and her captivity: Haman was the only one of his family left unslaughtered by the tribe of Benjamin; That's what spurred such hatred in him: When Watchtower is exposed; it will be the same for all the families that have been destroyed by her; they will turn on her bad!
 
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MickHewitt said:
Absolutely! If it was not for Esther's bravery, Haman the remnant of the Agagites of the Amalekites sworn enemies of Israel would have put into motion a decree if sanctioned by Xerxes would annihilate the remainders of the Nation! Thinking on about Israel and her captivity: Haman was the only one of his family left unslaughtered by the tribe of Benjamin; That's what spurred such hatred in him: When Watchtower is exposed; it will be the same for all the families that have been destroyed by her; they will turn on her bad!
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I never knew this info. It makes the entire book of Esther more intriguing. Wow!
 
Under the subheading “THE SWORD, THE FAMINE AND THE PESTILENCE” Robert King highlights some “obvious facts”. In reviewing this subheading it helps me to better understand the instruction to flee symbolic Judea/Jerusalem and to have in mind an idea of not only the meaning of the sword, the famine and pestilence, but how that prophesy in Jeremiah intertwines with Christ’s description of the conclusion of this system. I appreciate the obvious and feel it warrants repeat consideration. Here is the quote:

“Returning to the 23rd chapter of Jeremiah, Jehovah denounced the shepherds of his sheep because they were responsible for the sheep being destroyed and scattered by the sword, pestilence and famine. Their negligence necessitated God’s intervention to rescue his scattered flock. Hence, Jeremiah 23:3-6 reads: ‘“Then I will gather together the remnant of my sheep from all the lands to which I have dispersed them, and I will bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and become many. And I will raise up over them shepherds who will really shepherd them. They will no longer be afraid or be terrified, and none will be missing,’ declares Jehovah. ‘Look! The days are coming,’ declares Jehovah, ‘when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will reside in security. And this is the name by which he will be called: Jehovah Is Our Righteousness.’”

The means by which God collects his scattered flock is through the “righteous sprout” of David. Of course, the Jews who were scattered by the Babylonian siege were not repatriated to the land of Judah under the renewed kingdom of David. So, the 23rd chapter of Jeremiah is really a messianic prophecy related to the coming of Christ to rule the world.

But the obvious fact remains: First, the symbolic sword of war, famine and pestilence disperses the sheep. Only afterwards does Jehovah bless them. That being the case, let the self-proclaimed “Jeremiah class” explain how the sword, famine and pestilence connected to the supposed coming of Christ in 1914 may have accomplished the foretold judgments of God.”

For those who have lost loved ones, I hope you are encouraged by Jehovah’s promise that when he gathers back his people under his Kingdom, NONE will be missing as per the scripture above.
 
I know that the forum has previously discussed the new covenant and who the actual parties are. So, I don’t intend to revive an old discussion but the end of the Chapter 19 is interesting to me in that it contrasts the scripture in Jeremiah 31:34 where it says that “they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,’ declares Jehovah. ‘For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”’ with Paul’s statement at 1 Corinthians 13:12 saying his knowledge was only partial ”For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.” These scriptures are ones that I have always felt I didn’t fully understand their meaning until considering Chapter 19 and now it makes sense. So, I will end the review of this chapter by quoting Robert King who states the following:

“So, even though Jehovah inaugurated the new covenant with anointed Christians in the first century, the ultimate purpose of the new covenant has not been realized yet. That is where the pattern established in the prophecy of Jeremiah illuminates future developments.

The modern movement of Jehovah’s Witnesses has brought into existence an organization that is called by God’s name—as were the Jews in the time of Jeremiah. Because the core of the organization is composed of anointed persons who are in a covenant with Jehovah, the Watchtower Society has become the modern-day city of God and temple whereupon the name of Jehovah has been called. As such, Jehovah God will judge the organization— as he did Jerusalem.

Following afterwards, God will renew his covenant with his chastened people. Only this time the restoration of God’s friendship will come about by the outpouring of the full measure of God’s spirit upon those already in the new covenant. The fact that the new covenant produces a people who know God and who no longer need anyone to teach them to know Jehovah, indicates that the prophecy of Jeremiah is pointing forward to the culmination of the Christian era.

Having Jehovah’s law written upon their hearts means that those redeemed Christians will inherit the incorruptibility reserved for them. They will never, ever, defect again or require God to chastise them “to the proper degree.” God will forgive their error and they will at last, along with all the resurrected holy ones, become one with the Son of God —seeing him “face-to-face.”
 
SusanB said:
“they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,’ declares Jehovah.
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What a unique time we are in to take full advantage of! Yet what a wonderful time ahead when all will know Jah. Scriptures say that there are three qualities faith; hope and love. Faith will become reality so will hope but love will reign. Another great consideration Sister Susan. Look forward to more.
 
SusanB said:
I know that the forum has previously discussed the new covenant and who the actual parties are. So, I don’t intend to revive an old discussion but the end of the Chapter 19 is interesting to me in that it contrasts the scripture in Jeremiah 31:34 where it says that “they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,’ declares Jehovah. ‘For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”’ with Paul’s statement at 1 Corinthians 13:12 saying his knowledge was only partial ”For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.” These scriptures are ones that I have always felt I didn’t fully understand their meaning until considering Chapter 19 and now it makes sense. So, I will end the review of this chapter by quoting Robert King who states the following:

“So, even though Jehovah inaugurated the new covenant with anointed Christians in the first century, the ultimate purpose of the new covenant has not been realized yet. That is where the pattern established in the prophecy of Jeremiah illuminates future developments.

The modern movement of Jehovah’s Witnesses has brought into existence an organization that is called by God’s name—as were the Jews in the time of Jeremiah. Because the core of the organization is composed of anointed persons who are in a covenant with Jehovah, the Watchtower Society has become the modern-day city of God and temple whereupon the name of Jehovah has been called. As such, Jehovah God will judge the organization— as he did Jerusalem.

Following afterwards, God will renew his covenant with his chastened people. Only this time the restoration of God’s friendship will come about by the outpouring of the full measure of God’s spirit upon those already in the new covenant. The fact that the new covenant produces a people who know God and who no longer need anyone to teach them to know Jehovah, indicates that the prophecy of Jeremiah is pointing forward to the culmination of the Christian era.

Having Jehovah’s law written upon their hearts means that those redeemed Christians will inherit the incorruptibility reserved for them. They will never, ever, defect again or require God to chastise them “to the proper degree.” God will forgive their error and they will at last, along with all the resurrected holy ones, become one with the Son of God —seeing him “face-to-face.”
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Apocalipsis 7:16-17
 
SusanB said:
I know that the forum has previously discussed the new covenant and who the actual parties are. So, I don’t intend to revive an old discussion but the end of the Chapter 19 is interesting to me in that it contrasts the scripture in Jeremiah 31:34 where it says that “they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,’ declares Jehovah. ‘For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”’ with Paul’s statement at 1 Corinthians 13:12 saying his knowledge was only partial ”For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.” These scriptures are ones that I have always felt I didn’t fully understand their meaning until considering Chapter 19 and now it makes sense. So, I will end the review of this chapter by quoting Robert King who states the following:

“So, even though Jehovah inaugurated the new covenant with anointed Christians in the first century, the ultimate purpose of the new covenant has not been realized yet. That is where the pattern established in the prophecy of Jeremiah illuminates future developments.

The modern movement of Jehovah’s Witnesses has brought into existence an organization that is called by God’s name—as were the Jews in the time of Jeremiah. Because the core of the organization is composed of anointed persons who are in a covenant with Jehovah, the Watchtower Society has become the modern-day city of God and temple whereupon the name of Jehovah has been called. As such, Jehovah God will judge the organization— as he did Jerusalem.

Following afterwards, God will renew his covenant with his chastened people. Only this time the restoration of God’s friendship will come about by the outpouring of the full measure of God’s spirit upon those already in the new covenant. The fact that the new covenant produces a people who know God and who no longer need anyone to teach them to know Jehovah, indicates that the prophecy of Jeremiah is pointing forward to the culmination of the Christian era.

Having Jehovah’s law written upon their hearts means that those redeemed Christians will inherit the incorruptibility reserved for them. They will never, ever, defect again or require God to chastise them “to the proper degree.” God will forgive their error and they will at last, along with all the resurrected holy ones, become one with the Son of God —seeing him “face-to-face.”
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'Funny', even though I had and do not have any desire to go to heaven, I always had a vague and uneasy feeling of 'being left behind' or 'left out', but because Robert's book is discussed in this way I not only get more understanding, not entirely unimportant, but above all much more the feeling of 'belonging'. So, thank you Susan and I look forward to the next chapter. Because this has also prompted me to study, along with these summaries, all of Robert's articles on his main site, about the prophets, instead of just reading them.
 
SusanB said:
For example, the March 15, 1951, Watchtower said: “We belong to God’s theocratic organization under his kingdom. His visible organization will not pass away, but is as stable and permanent as his kingdom. Therefore, come what remarkable, violent changes may in the earth’s physical appearance at the end of Satan’s world, we will not fear.”

By teaching that “his visible organization will not pass away, but is as stable and permanent as is his kingdom,” Jehovah’s Witnesses have been subtly seduced into putting their trust in “deceptive words”— mouthing, as it were: “the temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah!”
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While I was reading this it occurred to me that we were in effect, lead to believe that although Jesus’ presence is “invisible“ yet his organization is “visible.” How subtle and deceptive is that?? The devil is definitely in the details.
What we see happening now in the organization was prophesied.

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” ( 2 Timothy 4: 3,4 )

“I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” ( Acts 20: 29,30 )

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.” ( 1 Timothy 4: 1,2 )

“While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for if anyone is overcome by someone, he is his slave.” ( 2 Peter 2:19 )
 
Jonah said:
Uh, it was the Arabs who attacked the Jews in 48 and 67. This revisionist history about the "peaceful" Palestinians (who didn't exist as a different people from Arabs until Yasser Arafat) is highly ignorant of the Islamic Jihad that continues against Israel to this day.
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Jonah said:
Uh, it was the Arabs who attacked the Jews in 48 and 67. This revisionist history about the "peaceful" Palestinians (who didn't exist as a different people from Arabs until Yasser Arafat) is highly ignorant of the Islamic Jihad that continues against Israel to this day.
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Indeed, atrocities were committed on both sides. As the ole saying goes, one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
It’s a good thing that soon all this will be dealt with justly.
 
Jonah said:
Uh, it was the Arabs who attacked the Jews in 48 and 67. This revisionist history about the "peaceful" Palestinians (who didn't exist as a different people from Arabs until Yasser Arafat) is highly ignorant of the Islamic Jihad that continues against Israel to this day.
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Good luck trying to find any source that can accurately authenticate which side actually initiated atrocities against the other.
Too much bias.
 
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