Chapter 25 - Revelation

[Truth_Seeker]

Isaiah 47
5.Sit there silently and go into darkness,
O daughter of the Chal·deʹans;+
No more will they call you Mistress* of Kingdoms.+
6 I grew indignant at my people.+
I profaned my inheritance,+
And I gave them into your hand.+
But you showed them no mercy.+
Even on the elderly you placed a heavy yoke.+
7 You said: “I will always be the Mistress,* forever.”+
You did not take these things to heart;
You did not consider how the matter would end.
8 Now hear this, O lover of pleasure,+
Who sits in security, who says in her heart:
“I am the one, and there is no one else.+
I will not become a widow.
I will never know the loss of children.”+
9 But these two things will come upon you suddenly, in one day:+
Loss of children and widowhood.
In full measure they will come upon you+
Because of* your many sorceries and all your powerful spells.+
10 You trusted in your wickedness.
You said: “No one sees me.”
Your wisdom and knowledge are what led you astray,
And you say in your heart: “I am the one, and there is no one else.”
11 But calamity will come upon you,
And none of your charms will stop it.*
Adversity will befall you; you will not be able to avert it.
Sudden ruin will come upon you like you have never known.+
12 Go ahead, then, with your spells and your many sorceries,+
With which you have toiled from your youth.
Perhaps you may be able to benefit;
Perhaps you may strike people with awe.
13 You have grown weary with the multitude of your advisers.
Let them stand up now and save you,
Those who worship the heavens,* who gaze at the stars,+
Those giving out knowledge at the new moons
About the things that will come upon you.
14 Look! They are like stubble.
A fire will burn them up.
They cannot save themselves* from the power of the flame.
These are not charcoals for keeping warm,
And this is not a fire to sit in front of.
15 So your charmers will become to you,
Those with whom you toiled from your youth.
They will wander, each one in his own direction.*
There will be no one to save you.+

 

[Truth_Seeker]

Does the 8th king really get rid of Babylon? I know the Bible says the 10 kings and the beast will do so but the Bible also says that it is not until the 7th bowl does Jehovah remember to deal with her. And this is after the 5th bowl is poured out on the beast. If that is occurring on the beast with the 5th bowl, then I would think that that is after his time to rule. And the 1st bowl comes on those that have the mark which is given during the beast rule. That means that Babylon is present the whole time the beast is in authority. But why would the beast even care to turn on Babylon at that time when it itself is getting bowls of wrath poured on it?


[16 And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire.]

So, we are told.

[2 The first one went off and poured out his bowl on the earth.+ And a hurtful and malignant ulcer+ afflicted the people who had the mark of the wild beast+ and who were worshipping its image.+]

[10 The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened,+ and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain, 11 but they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their ulcers, and they did not repent of their works.]

[17 The seventh one poured out his bowl on the air. At this a loud voice came out of the sanctuary+ from the throne, saying: “It has come to pass!” 18 And there were flashes of lightning and voices and thunders, and there was a great earthquake unlike any that had occurred since men came to be on the earth,+ so extensive and so great was the earthquake. 19 The great city+ split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell; and Babylon the Great+ was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.+ 20 Also, every island fled, and mountains were not found.+ 21 Then great hailstones, each about the weight of a talent,* fell from heaven on the people,+ and the people blasphemed God because of the plague of hail,+ for the plague was unusually great.]

Are the 10 kings and beast in that bowl and they are the wrath that come on Babylon at that time? IDK how Babylon comes to her end but it seems to happen at the 7th bowl. Also take note that Babylon the great is called the great city and that is where the two witnesses are killed.

[7 When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them.+ 8 And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodʹom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake.]

Yes, I might be wrong here. The 10 kings will probably turn against Babylon during the hour they rule with the beast. And most likely towards the end of that hour.

 

[Frank D]

Yes, I might be wrong here. The 10 kings will probably turn against Babylon during the hour they rule with the beast. And most likely towards the end of that hour.

Unless the bowls are poured out during that hour (42 months) specifically the 7th bowl, then Babylon does not go down until after that hour is over. But again, why would the 5th bowl be allowed to be poured on the beast during the time he is given to rule? That makes no sense. Only after his rule and after he kills the two-witnesses should he start to receive bowls of wrath like is said at the 5th bowl. But then how is it that Babylon goes down on 7th bowl?

 

[Truth_Seeker]

I guess it's a gradual process: loss of children, widowhood and eventually total destruction. This process is going to be relatively fast, in one day, the day of Jehovah.

 

[Ana]

The fall of watchtower will be a marginal event for the world. For Jehovah's people yes, but watchtower proved not to listen and to stay out of Babylon. They kind of turned back to Babylon in the past decades. If it's true and they bought shares in big corporations that is a big sin.

Si reconoces que La Atalaya es el pueblo de Jehová cuando empiece el tiempo del fin y que la limpieza empieza primero por su pueblo tras la apostasía, le daría la importancia que le corresponde. Acaso no es de ese pueblo del que salen sus escogidos? Es precisamente su caída lo que hará diferenciar a los adoradores de Jehová de los que siguen su ídolo institucional. Y es esa diferencia la que después, tras la gran tribulación muchos se agarren a la falda de un judío, cómo ya ha sucedido en el pasado. Y para el mundo definirse va a ser más que importante, básicamente será vital. No observo el mundo con la mirada del mundo, sino con la mirada celestial. Me parece que justamente de eso se trata contemplar las santas escrituras.

 

[J&P]

Si reconoces que La Atalaya es el pueblo de Jehová cuando empiece el tiempo del fin y que la limpieza empieza primero por su pueblo tras la apostasía, le daría la importancia que le corresponde. Acaso no es de ese pueblo del que salen sus escogidos? Es precisamente su caída lo que hará diferenciar a los adoradores de Jehová de los que siguen su ídolo institucional. Y es esa diferencia la que después, tras la gran tribulación muchos se agarren a la falda de un judío, cómo ya ha sucedido en el pasado. Y para el mundo definirse va a ser más que importante, básicamente será vital. No observo el mundo con la mirada del mundo, sino con la mirada celestial. Me parece que justamente de eso se trata contemplar las santas escrituras.

Bellamente dicho Ana. (Phyllis)

 

[SusanB]

In Robert King’s recent thread commenting on the Watchtower dot org article, “Is World War Inevitable?” he has the link to his article, “The Sun Will Set on the Prophets” and in that article he reminds us of the situation with Jesus’ apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane and how they fell asleep and then scattered. He also points out how it is important to know what to watch for not simply being on the watch. That dovetails with this quote from Chapter 25 of his book, which reminds us of the seriousness of our situation. I know all of the brothers and sister may not repent but I hope they do. Right now Jehovah’s people, especially the anointed, seem insignificant and are certainly not making the world’s headlines but the bible does focus on Jesus’ brothers because they will makeup the Kingdom rulership that will be the salvation of all.

”In order to better appreciate why God would destroy what, up until then, had served as his earthly instrumentality consider what the Hebrew prophecy of Zechariah says. Zechariah 13:7 reads: “‘O sword, awake against my shepherd, against the man who is my companion,’ declares Jehovah of armies. ‘Strike the shepherd, and let the flock be scattered; and I will turn my hand against those who are insignificant.”’

What is the connection to the blowing of the first trumpet?

This aspect of Zechariah was initially fulfilled when the shepherd, Jesus, was struck by the executioner’s sword and the apostles were all momentarily scattered. Nevertheless, the prophecy has an application to God’s judgments during the Lord’s day. That should be plainly evident by the context of the following 14th chapter of Zechariah, which describes Armageddon as immediately subsequent to the scattering of the flock. To what degree is the flock scattered? Jehovah answers at Zechariah 13:8-9, saying: “‘And in all the land,’ declares Jehovah, ‘two parts in it will be cut off and perish; and the third part will be left remaining in it. And I will bring the third part through the fire; and I will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘Jehovah is our God.’”

 

[kenmuldoon55]

Not a bad story My brother Med. But it don't quite sit right. When Saul's friends went and hid, were they really eye witnesses that Saul just had a run in with the glorified Jesus Christ? And when Daniel's friends hid, were they really eye witnesses that Daniel saw a vision of the Christ. However comma like the other sheep they were aware that something was up. And possibly after the fact they may or may not have been clued in to what had happened. So the friends of Saul and Daniel were not eye witnesses to anything. So too the great crowd will see evidence that the Day of the Lord is here after the fact.

Absent the testimony from Christs brothers I think world events will be tipping the rest of us off sufficiently as to what day has finally arrived especially seeing how Holy Spirit will also be poured out like never before on the non sealed brothers of Jesus. Think enhanced powers of perception. Testimonies from the sealed ones will serve to strengthen what we will most likely already be well aware of.

 

[SusanB]

I can only understand what has been revealed in the ORG with regarding to the vaccines, the change in doctrine, the complete exposure of their 1914 error and their handling of child sexual abuse cases, by applying the numerous scriptures of denunciation and correction to them. If you haven’t recently read Chapter 25, I would encourage a refresher. There are many important scriptures in this chapter. Here is a snippet:

”The denunciation against Israel in the second chapter of Isaiah is quite similar to the judgments connected to the blowing of the first two trumpets. For example, the prophecy calls for all mountain-like institutions and massive treelike personalities, as well as “all desirable boats,” to be brought low before Jehovah’s “majestic splendor.” Isaiah 2:13-16 reads: “Upon all the cedars of Lebanon that are lofty and exalted and upon all the oaks of Bashan, upon all the lofty mountains and upon all the high hills, upon every high tower and every fortified wall, upon all the ships of Tarshish and upon all desirable boats.”

As was the case with God’s dealings with apostate Israel and Judah, Jehovah did not simply remove wicked men from his holy mountain. He destroyed the entire kingdom and demolished his own temple as an expression of his indignation and rage — bringing down “every high tower,” as Isaiah says. So, when the house of God comes under judgment, that which is condemned by God will then be utterly thrown down.

The denunciation continues: “The third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning like a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. The name of the star is Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the people died from the waters, because these had been made bitter.” “The great star burning like a lamp,” which falls from heaven, polluting the rivers and fountains of waters, turning them to wormwood— causing many men to perish— similarly would seem to picture the lamp of the congregation— or what had been looked to as a lamp— as a lighted city on a hill. For example, Jesus told the congregation in Ephesus: “Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first. If you do not, I will come to you, and I will remove your lamp stand from its place, unless you repent.” The implication is that if Christians did not repent, their light would be removed. There would be dire consequences indeed for all those dependent upon the light that was snuffed out. Elsewhere, Jesus exhorted his disciples to walk while they had the light before them— because the night was coming.

Jehovah spoke of feeding the apostate Israelites poisoned water and wormwood, saying at Jeremiah 9:15: “Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, says, ‘Here I am making this people eat wormwood, and I will make them drink poisoned water.”

It seems, then, that the third trumpet blast, which causes the congregational lamp to be extinguished and the waters to become as wormwood, relates to the spiritual deaths of Christians who continue to imbibe of the Watchtower’s ‘refreshing waters of truth’ after those water sources have been cursed by God as contaminated well-springs of error and falsehood.”

 

[Seadog]

It seems, then, that the third trumpet blast, which causes the congregational lamp to be extinguished and the waters to become as wormwood, relates to the spiritual deaths of Christians who continue to imbibe of the Watchtower’s ‘refreshing waters of truth’ after those water sources have been cursed by God as contaminated well-springs of error and falsehood.”

Powerful!!

 

[DR75 less 1]

Absent the testimony from Christs brothers I think world events will be tipping the rest of us off sufficiently as to what day has finally arrived especially seeing how Holy Spirit will also be poured out like never before on the non sealed brothers of Jesus. Think enhanced powers of perception. Testimonies from the sealed ones will serve to strengthen what we will most likely already be well aware of.

To name just one world event. "Sword stroke of the 7th head of the wild beast" Evidence after the fact that the Kingdom has been set up, in the heavens but not as yet fully functional ), Satan and his hoods have been kicked out of heaven. The outpouring of holy spirit is also evidence after the fact that Christ's day is here. As with the friends of Saul and Daniel ( The other sheep ) they are not eyewitnesses of the "event" but are able to discern what is going on based on observable evidence "after the fact" or prophesy is fulfilled.

 

[SusanB]

I appreciate how much Zechariah and Revelation dovetail and are harmonious. As Robert King states in the following article, “The book of Zechariah might be called the Revelation of the Hebrew Scriptures.”

Here is a link to an article that Robert King wrote on the book of Zechariah with prophecies that intertwine with Revelation.

The Flying Scroll of Zechariah

Lea este artículo en español The book of Zechariah might be called the Revelation of the Hebrew Scriptures. There are many similarities between the two prophetic books. For one, both were written after Jerusalem was destroyed; yet, they point forward to God renewing "Jerusalem" and to another...

e-watchman.com

Back to Chapter 25, it makes this comment.

“To re-emphasize a very important point: the prophecy of Zechariah was written after the Jews had returned from exile in Babylon. It is apparent, then, that the destruction of Jerusalem applies to Christ’s congregation, also designated as Zion. The “two parts” that are destined to be “cut off and expire” pertain to God’s organization— his land. Not coincidentally, the expression “in all the land” may also be translated “the earth.” So, it appears as if “a third of the earth” that “was burned up” upon the blowing of the first trumpet corresponds to the third part of God’s earthly organization that is to be burned, as with fire.”

 

[SusanB]

In my opinion, one of the most effective ways to teach someone is to ask questions that lead them to reason on the subject and then acknowledge what is true. I think Chapter 25 does this effectively such as this quote:

”The denunciation continues: “The fourth angel blew his trumpet. And a third of the sun was struck and a third of the moon and a third of the stars, in order that a third of them might be darkened and the day might not have light for a third of it, and the night likewise.”

Since the opening of the sixth seal similarly resulted in the moon and sun being blotted out and the stars falling from the sky, what is the meaning of one third of each heavenly luminary being smitten? While the Watchtower insists the fourth angelic trumpet blast relates to the condemnation of Christendom, and since roughly one-third of the world claims to be Christian, the question ought to be asked: Has not Christendom always been in spiritual darkness? What has changed since 1925, when the fourth angel is believed to have blown his trumpet? More reasonably, and in keeping with the other angelic trumpeting, the loss of a third of the illumination of the heavenly bodies must relate to the spiritual darkness that will yet envelope God’s organization during his denunciation.

Due to the Watchtower’s teaching that Christ has already come and the prevailing attitude that all is well in spiritual paradise, it is doubtful that the Watchtower will immediately have any meaningful answers for Jehovah’s Witnesses when things go terribly wrong. It will be as if the organization’s light suddenly goes out. Isaiah 59:9-10 describes it this way: “That is why justice is far away from us, and righteousness does not overtake us. We keep hoping for light, but look! there is darkness; for brightness, but we keep walking in gloom. We grope for the wall like blind men; like those without eyes we keep groping. We stumble at high noon as in evening darkness; among the strong we are just like the dead.”

The lethal darkness will seem to impose the sentence of death upon even the spiritually “stout ones”—as the 59th chapter of Isaiah describes. However, Christ will then become a light to those trusting in him, dispelling the gloom into which his people will have been plunged, which is what Isaiah 29:18 foretells, where we read: “In that day the deaf will hear the words of the book, and out of the gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind will see.”

The coming night will discredit the Watchtower as a source of light and spell the end of the no-so-subtle tyranny that Christians have been subjected to. In contrast to the gloom the chosen ones will at some point shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.”

I think Jehovah wants a clear contrast between corrupted worship and clean, pure, true worship.

 

[MickHewitt]

I think Jehovah wants a clear contrast between corrupted worship and clean, pure, true worship.

Excellent observation sister: and He will evidence it Mal 3:18 "And you will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving Him"

 

[DR75 less 1]

I think Jehovah wants a clear contrast between corrupted worship and clean, pure, true worship.

You think?

 

[MickHewitt]

Excellent observation sister: and He will evidence it Mal 3:18 "And you will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving Him"

How encouraging to see so many taking part: That's because Jehovah is blessing our education, prayers for each other and our host. The little one has become over three hundred!

 

[MickHewitt]

How encouraging to see so many taking part: That's because Jehovah is blessing our education, prayers for each other and our host. The little one has become over three hundred!

Jehovah's organisation has acted as a dragnet Mtt13:47. It feels as though some of those hauled up in that net will be or are being further sorted Dan11:32-35?

 

[SusanB]

The 5th Angel blows his trumpet in the 9th Chapter of Revelation. I am very interested in the scriptures in Revelation Chapter 9 but I don’t fully understand them. For example, what does the smoke symbolize? It must be important because it darkens the sun and the air. Robert King’s explanation of the locusts is spot on and perfectly logical. But the 5 months of torment makes me wonder if those 5 months, roughly 150 days, falls within the 1,260 days of prophesying. Robert King brings up the question as to what sort of woe does this symbolize? Here is a quote from Chapter 25 of the book.

“THE FIFTH ANGEL BLEW HIS TRUMPET

The prophecy of Revelation continues in the ninth chapter: “The fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key to the shaft of the abyss was given to him. He opened the shaft of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the shaft like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun was darkened, also the air, by the smoke of the shaft. And locusts came out of the smoke onto the earth, and authority was given to them, the same authority that the scorpions of the earth have. They were told not to harm the vegetation of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.”

What sort of woe is envisaged by the release of the stinging locusts?

The Watchtower’s interpretation of the identity of the locusts seems sound. The fact that the locusts are depicted as wearing what seem to be crowns of gold and have women’s hair symbolizes that they are the kings of God’s Kingdom and the earthly bride of Christ. Be that as it may, there are several reasons why it is unreasonable to suppose that the vision has already been fulfilled. One: the locusts are commanded to sting “only those people who do not have the seal of God.” Logically, that judgment comes after the sealing is concluded.

Secondly, the golden crowns would not be an appropriate symbol unless the bearers of those crowns were actually ruling kings. In view of the fact that Paul sarcastically asked the Corinthians if they had already begun ruling as kings without the apostles, it is doubtful that Revelation would use that imagery unless the anointed were actually ruling as kings when the angel of the abyss releases them.

A little understood aspect of the sacred secret of God relates to the final sealing. Namely, when God bestows the full measure of his undeserved kindness on the approved sons of the Kingdom, resulting in “the revealing of the sons of God,” they then become kings of God’s Kingdom in the fullest sense, even though still existing in human form. It is after their becoming kings, in the short while that they remain on earth, that they become empowered by God’s spirit to issue God’s stinging denunciation for “five months.”

 

[MickHewitt]

Logically, that judgment comes after the sealing is concluded.

Wow thanks for that Sister Susan I had not considered that simple piece of logic: How exciting this all is. The puzzle is taking shape!

 

[Frank D]

[7 After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:]

[9 The fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key to the shaft of the abyss was given to him. 2 He opened the shaft of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the shaft like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun was darkened, also the air, by the smoke of the shaft. 3 And locusts came out of the smoke onto the earth, and authority was given to them, the same authority that the scorpions of the earth have. 4 They were told not to harm the vegetation of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And it was granted the locusts, not to kill them, but to torment them five months, and their torment was like torment by a scorpion when it strikes a person. 6 In those days people will seek death but will by no means find it, and they will long to die, but death will flee from them. 7 And in appearance the locusts resembled horses prepared for battle; on their heads were what seemed to be crowns of gold, and their faces were like human faces, 8 but they had hair like women’s hair. And their teeth were like those of lions, 9 and they had breastplates like iron breastplates. And the sound of their wings was like the sound of horse-drawn chariots rushing into battle. 10 Also, they have tails with stingers like scorpions, and in their tails is their authority to hurt the people for five months. 11 They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is A·badʹdon, but in Greek he has the name A·polʹlyon. 12 The one woe is past. Look! Two more woes are coming after these things.]

[13 The sixth angel blew his trumpet. And I heard one voice from the horns of the golden altar that is before God 14 say to the sixth angel who had the trumpet: “Untie the four angels who are bound at the great river Eu·phraʹtes.” 15 And the four angels who have been prepared for the hour and day and month and year were untied to kill a third of the people. 16 The number of the armies of cavalry was two myriads of myriads; I heard the number of them. 17 And this is how I saw the horses in the vision and those seated on them: They had fire-red and hyacinth-blue and sulfur-yellow breastplates, and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. 18 A third of the people were killed by these three plagues, by the fire and the smoke and the sulfur that came out of their mouths. 19 For the authority of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents and have heads, and with these they inflict harm. 20 But the rest of the people who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands; they did not stop worshipping the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. 21 And they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of their sexual immorality nor of their thefts.]

[11 And they said to me: “You must prophesy again about peoples and nations and tongues and many kings.”]
[2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months. 3 I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.” 4 These are symbolized by the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone wants to harm them, fire comes out of their mouths and consumes their enemies. If anyone should want to harm them, this is how he must be killed. 6 These have the authority to shut up the sky so that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have authority over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every sort of plague as often as they wish. 7 When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them. 8 And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodʹom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake. 9 And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not allow their corpses to be laid in a tomb. 10 And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and celebrate, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth. 11 After the three and a half days, spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven say to them: “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; and 7,000 persons were killed by the earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.]