Chapter 24 - Daniel

[SusanB]

I am guessing that since Robert King copyrighted his book in 2005 that was the year that he finished writing it. I think we are seeing the Dollar and the Euro crumbling now and so I am amazed that Robert understood this in 2005. It makes sense that the US and England are 2 of the 3 horns that will be plucked out because they are the dual power of the 7th King and they are dealt the fatal blow. I guess we will find out who the 3rd horn is soon. I’m also amazed that Robert King was writing in 2005 about the new emerging power bloc centered in Asia and would include China, Russia, India and Iran. It was actually named BRICS in 2010 and now includes Brazil and South Africa. The United Arab Emirates, Argentina, Egypt and Ethiopia are also set to enter BRICS from January 1, 2024. Although Robert King says that the Anglo-Euro bloc will likely not suffer an outright military defeat, I am wondering if the purpose of the immigration of military aged men in Europe and the US isn’t linked to an outright military defeat?

Quote from Chapter 24:

”However, since there can be little doubt that the Anglo-American duo comprise the seventh head of the beast of Revelation and their downfall is elsewhere established in prophecy, the fall of the three kingdom horns must include them. Perhaps the third horn represents France or Germany. As it stands now, there is talk that the entire Eurozone could collapse. More than likely, the crash of the Dollar and Euro will factor into the fulfillment of the prophecy.

The great powers of Europe have for many centuries dominated the world but have also raged wars with each other. Since the end of World War Two Britain, France and America have especially enjoyed the spoils of war that go to the victors. But in recent years, Western civilization— dominated primarily by those three nations, has inarguably been in decline. A new power bloc is emerging centered in Asia. China, Russia, India and Iran present an obstacle to continued American and European domination. A final confrontation is inevitable. Although the Anglo-Euro bloc will likely not suffer an outright military defeat, it seems certain that the coming conflict will bring an end to the democratic system.

The significance of this is that America and Europe are the heart and soul of Christendom and subsequently the lands where Jehovah’s Witnesses were originally established and where the main headquarters and predominate branches and printeries are located. A crash of the Trans-Atlantic economic and political system would have a devastating impact on the ministry of Jehovah’s Witnesses since they are wholly dependent upon the Watchtower Bible Society for direction.

Hence, Daniel describes what he saw next: “that horn made war on the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was rendered in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the appointed time arrived for the holy ones to take possession of the kingdom.”

 

[Watchman]

I think everyone who has read Robert King’s book know this info but I am including it in the review because to me it is so important that the Org’s teaching that the 7th King is the last King is not correct. The image in Daniel with the different features from the head to the toes, itself in it’s entirety is the 8th King. That is the the last human government that will be allowed. When I read that, I knew with no doubt it was true because it harmonized exactly with Revelation that specifically calls it the 8th King. How could the Org get it so wrong? Actually I think they know but don’t want to admit it. The question is why?

Here is a quote from Chapter 24:

”As regards the second chapter of Daniel, the metallic colossus with the head of gold supported on the feet of iron and clay represents a single composite kingdom that is ultimately shattered by the stone, not chiseled by human hands.

Since the metallic image seems to be in inverted order, with the feet of iron and clay upon which the entire image is standing representing the most recent powers, the logical question is: What does the image itself represent? As discussed in a previous chapter, according to Revelation chapter 17 there is an eighth king that springs from the seven. So, the Anglo-American king is not the last king. He has a successor that rules for a prophetic one hour. The entire image, with its head of gold, which Daniel specifically interpreted to symbolize King Nebuchadnezzar himself, must represent the eighth and final king.

That Nebuchadnezzar represents the final kingdom is made apparent in the prophecy of Isaiah; specifically, chapters 13-14, where the king of Babylon is portrayed as the last of all of the goat-like rulers of the earth, who does not even receive an honorable burial —as have his predecessors. Instead, his fallen carcass is left to rot on the earth like a slaughtered beast—just as Revelation depicts the vanquished last kingdom of earth in the aftermath of the war at Armageddon.”

The operation of Satan is intended to create a false kingdom-come. The Devil must have written Sun Su's art of war. By faking his ouster from heaven he intends to make Christians vulnerable to the shock and awe he will put on display when in the future he comes down to earth in a rage. To make it work he has influenced key individuals to interpret prophecy to 1914. Since Revelation ties the ouster of Satan to the beast rising from the abyss the prophets of Bethel are compelled by the unholy spirit to fabricate the myth that the Anglo-American duo received what appeared to be a mortal blow during the First World War. Of course, nothing in reality supports that. No matter. Then, supposedly the impotent and now-defunct League of Nations came alive, then it too went into the abyss and crawled out as the UN. And although the eighth king will have authority over everyone and kill those who do not worship the image of the beast, in reality, the UN is a powerless institution too, just like the League was. It cannot prevent the killing and murder of innocent women and children in Gaza and yet it is supposedly killing everyone who defies its authority???

It is all cleverly spun but it is nonsense. Soberingly, the Devil is so good that his lies are believed as if they were Jehovah's sacred secrets and Jehovah's Witnesses feel privileged to be informed about these things that no one else knows.

Here is a related article

The King Made an Image of Gold

A continuation of the Daniel series Although Nebuchadnezzar praised Daniel’s God as the Revealer of secrets and the “God of gods” he was not moved to forsake Babylon’s idolatry and exclusively worship the

e-watchman.com

 

[MickHewitt]

The operation of Satan is intended to create a false kingdom-come. The Devil must have written Sun Su's art of war. By faking his ouster from heaven he intends to make Christians vulnerable to the shock and awe he will put on display when in the future he comes down to earth in a rage. To make it work he has influenced key individuals to interpret prophecy to 1914. Since Revelation ties the ouster of Satan to the beast rising from the abyss the prophets of Bethel are compelled by the unholy spirit to fabricate the myth that the Anglo-American duo received what appeared to be a mortal blow during the First World War. Of course, nothing in reality supports that. No matter. Then, supposedly the impotent and now-defunct League of Nations came alive, then it too went into the abyss and crawled out as the UN. And although the eighth king will have authority over everyone and kill those who do not worship the image of the beast, in reality, the UN is a powerless institution too, just like the League was. It cannot prevent the killing and murder of innocent women and children in Gaza and yet it is supposedly killing everyone who defies its authority???

It is all cleverly spun but it is nonsense. Soberingly, the Devil is so good that his lies are believed as if they were Jehovah's sacred secrets and Jehovah's Witnesses feel privileged to be informed about these things that no one else knows.

Here is a related article

The King Made an Image of Gold

A continuation of the Daniel series Although Nebuchadnezzar praised Daniel’s God as the Revealer of secrets and the “God of gods” he was not moved to forsake Babylon’s idolatry and exclusively worship the

e-watchman.com

Thing is; being steered and corralled by Watchtower into what they want us to observe but leaves out the obvious. Like being diverted from the direct warning in 2Thess2:2 "Don't be shaken by any inspired statement that Jehovah's day is already here!" They didn't quote this one! It means they have read as much scripture as we only to mislead! How sad they have missed the essense of our Christ; When Christ washed the feet of His brothers and Peter objected, Christ said 'Do you understand what I have done to you?' John13:7 "What I am doing you do not understand now but you will understand later". The lesson? The undeserved precious gift of life in the image of Jehovah!

 

[MickHewitt]

Thing is; being steered and corralled by Watchtower into what they want us to observe but leaves out the obvious. Like being diverted from the direct warning in 2Thess2:2 "Don't be shaken by any inspired statement that Jehovah's day is already here!" They didn't quote this one! It means they have read as much scripture as we only to mislead! How sad they have missed the essense of our Christ; When Christ washed the feet of His brothers and Peter objected, Christ said 'Do you understand what I have done to you?' John13:7 "What I am doing you do not understand now but you will understand later". The lesson? The undeserved precious gift of life in the image of Jehovah!

Oh! Guys Watching Opel hunters and Gold hunters and the lives they give up to dig: I am so privileged to be given the mine the Bible to dig in and find such surpassing wealth!

 

[SusanB]

I thought these points were interesting on the symbolism in Daniel ties in with Revelation and how both Daniel and John were in a captive condition to the empire of the beast when they received their visions. Here is the quote:

”There is no question that the appearance Daniel saw was a vision of the glorified Christ—the essential features of the vision being very similar to what John experienced when he received the revelation. For example, Revelation 1:12-17 relates: “I turned to see who was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed in a garment that reached down to the feet and wearing a golden sash around his chest. Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest. When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet.”

As already pointed out, both Daniel and John were in a captive condition to the empire of the beast when they received the visions. Both prophets were also quite aged. This would seem to picture the entire body of anointed Christians on earth during the parousia, who are also aptly symbolized as elderly men, since most are quite old too. The holy ones will also find themselves in captivity to the same beastly, political monstrosity that once held Daniel and John captive.

By those means, Christ will chastise the faithful slave with the symbolic lash of humiliation and hardship. And toward the end of the three-year period the Greater Cyrus will then liberate God’s people.

Daniel’s experience is a portent of the visible manifestation of Christ to the holy ones during the time of the end. The chosen ones are indeed very precious to Jehovah. So much so that Jesus said that the chosen ones personally have an angel that always has direct access to the face of Jehovah himself. They are precious because Jehovah has chosen to lavish his rich blessings upon them, making them sharers in Christ’s heavenly nature. That is why the angel stated that Daniel was a very precious man— he pictures the chosen ones during the parousia.”

 

[SusanB]

It is so interesting that Daniel had to be enlightened by Gabriel to understand the vision that pertains to the last days and the “great conflict” between the King of the North and the King of the South. And, I also noticed that not only was Daniel described as a precious man but I think it’s the angel Gabriel who points out that Daniel is being given the vision and the understanding because he “gave your heart to understanding and to humbling yourself before your God”. So, it was in answer to Daniel’s prayer, motivation and humility.

Daniel 10:12: “He then said to me: “Do not be afraid, O Daniel. Your words have been heard from the first day that you gave your heart to understanding and to humbling yourself before your God, and I have come because of your words.”

There are additional important points in this quote from Chapter 24 that explains why the organization and really all of us are not completely clear on how everything will happen:

”At Daniel 10:1, the prophecy of the kings of the north and south is summarized thusly: “In the third year of King Cyrus of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel, who was called by the name Belteshazzar; and the message was true, and it was about a great conflict. And he understood the message and was given understanding about what he had seen.”
….
In truth, the great conflict will not merely be an earthly war— it is a universal war with the real theater of conflict in a realm invisible to human eyes. As revealed in the 10th chapter of Daniel, what is the significance of the fact that “prince of the royal realm of Persia” successfully opposed the angelic messenger who had been dispatched to enlighten the prophet? Obviously no human prince could possibly resist a mighty angel of Jehovah. That being the case, the prince of Persia must be a demonic resister.

The spirit opposer was only overcome when Michael came to the angel’s assistance. Think of the implications: This means that Daniel was kept in an unenlightened state regarding events to occur in the final part of the days due to fierce demonic resistance.

This drama that was played out in the heavenly sphere certainly explains why the Watchtower, and consequently Jehovah’s Witnesses, are in such a befuddled state today when it comes to understanding prophetic matters. As in the case of Daniel, the enlightening angel will not make a breakthrough until Michael comes and overpowers Satan and his fellow resisters. This aspect of Daniel also mirrors the 12th chapter of Revelation regarding the warfare that is destined to erupt in the spirit realm when Michael and his angels do battle with the Devil and his angels, with the seed of the woman— a Daniel class, if you will —being caught in the crossfire, when the maddened demon princes bring woe upon the earthly system.
***
I do wonder if the 21 days that the angel was delayed in getting to Daniel has any symbolic significance.

 

[SusanB]

It is so interesting that Daniel had to be enlightened by Gabriel to understand the vision that pertains to the last days and the “great conflict” between the King of the North and the King of the South. And, I also noticed that not only was Daniel described as a precious man but I think it’s the angel Gabriel who points out that Daniel is being given the vision and the understanding because he “gave your heart to understanding and to humbling yourself before your God”. So, it was in answer to Daniel’s prayer, motivation and humility.

Daniel 10:12: “He then said to me: “Do not be afraid, O Daniel. Your words have been heard from the first day that you gave your heart to understanding and to humbling yourself before your God, and I have come because of your words.”

There are additional important points in this quote from Chapter 24 that explains why the organization and really all of us are not completely clear on how everything will happen:

”At Daniel 10:1, the prophecy of the kings of the north and south is summarized thusly: “In the third year of King Cyrus of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel, who was called by the name Belteshazzar; and the message was true, and it was about a great conflict. And he understood the message and was given understanding about what he had seen.”
….
In truth, the great conflict will not merely be an earthly war— it is a universal war with the real theater of conflict in a realm invisible to human eyes. As revealed in the 10th chapter of Daniel, what is the significance of the fact that “prince of the royal realm of Persia” successfully opposed the angelic messenger who had been dispatched to enlighten the prophet? Obviously no human prince could possibly resist a mighty angel of Jehovah. That being the case, the prince of Persia must be a demonic resister.

The spirit opposer was only overcome when Michael came to the angel’s assistance. Think of the implications: This means that Daniel was kept in an unenlightened state regarding events to occur in the final part of the days due to fierce demonic resistance.

This drama that was played out in the heavenly sphere certainly explains why the Watchtower, and consequently Jehovah’s Witnesses, are in such a befuddled state today when it comes to understanding prophetic matters. As in the case of Daniel, the enlightening angel will not make a breakthrough until Michael comes and overpowers Satan and his fellow resisters. This aspect of Daniel also mirrors the 12th chapter of Revelation regarding the warfare that is destined to erupt in the spirit realm when Michael and his angels do battle with the Devil and his angels, with the seed of the woman— a Daniel class, if you will —being caught in the crossfire, when the maddened demon princes bring woe upon the earthly system.
***
I do wonder if the 21 days that the angel was delayed in getting to Daniel has any symbolic significance.

In a discussion with my husband this morning, we also noticed how the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses are in a “befuddled state” regarding prophecy really ties in nicely with Luke 12:48 that talks about the slave who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes.

Luke 12:48: “But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.”

Considering the illustration of the faithful and discreet slave, vs the evil slave and the ignorant slave along with the illustration of the minas given to the 3 slaves related in Luke 19, I think it shows that we must put forth the effort to learn Jehovah’s will and do our honest hearted best to act on it and promote it. Because even if we are incorrect but it is our sincere belief, Jehovah will correct us. But doing nothing will end in losing out on the Kingdom. I know these illustrations are really directed at the anointed and yet even those who are not anointed can and should apply them.

 

[SusanB]

Have any of you heard the brothers and sisters say: “Look at the big picture”? I agree, so let’s look a quote from Chapter 24 that talks about the “big picture” which describes the conflict between God’s Kingdom and the 8th King. The main theme of the bible is the sanctification of Jehovah’s name and vindication of his sovereignty, right? So, the final showdown between God’s Kingdom and human rulership (aka Satan’s rulership) is the big picture.

”The significance of the series of prophecies in Daniel is to establish the fact that God’s Kingdom comes into direct conflict with a specific earthly government at a certain moment in time, brought on by a conflict in heaven and reflected in a series of political developments— culminating with the martyrdom of the final sons of God.

The prophecy in the eighth chapter of Daniel concerning the small horn that emerges from the hairy he-goat, and which becomes greater and greater, also sheds light upon the rise and fall of the last kingdom.”

 

[SusanB]

I had to understand and learn a bit about history to really understand the feet and the clay of the image in Daniel. It is amazing that these power struggles go on for centuries and much longer than the life of any human but it makes sense that the spirit realm is the real source of these conflicts. Here is a quote from Chapter 24.

”Paradoxically, the two antagonistic systems of oligarchism and republicanism embodied in the hybrid Anglo-American system are antagonistic ideologies that both existed in ancient Greece. So, while Greece is known as the “cradle of democracy” and republicanism, Alexander’s empire is also the forerunner of the Roman and British empires as well.

This striving of two competing kings is in harmony with what is also revealed in Daniel concerning the struggle between the kings of the north and south— as well as the incompatible iron and clay amalgam that do not stick together. It perfectly symbolizes the modern Anglo-American dual world power, which is an unnatural union of imperialism and republicanism. Yet, as noted previously, one force wins out.”

 

[wth]

Question:How could one King win out when Revelation chapter 13 depicts a 2 horn Beast alive at the time of Christ Presence? Sames neither King wins out but are melded into a Special relationship .Why do you say one King win out?

 

[Watchman]

Question:How could one King win out when Revelation chapter 13 depicts a 2 horn Beast alive at the time of Christ Presence? Sames neither King wins out but are melded into a Special relationship .Why do you say one King win out?

The 11th chapter of Daniel reveals that the king of the North subjugates his long-time nemesis, the king of the South so that when Michael stands up to confront the king of the North there is no king of the South.

 

[Bk Kevin]

Question:How could one King win out when Revelation chapter 13 depicts a 2 horn Beast alive at the time of Christ Presence? Sames neither King wins out but are melded into a Special relationship .Why do you say one King win out?

Food for thought...​

What is the meaning of the beast rising from the earth?​

Excerpt:
Just as the multi-headed beast of Revelation is a composite of various parts of the individual beasts presented in the seventh chapter of Daniel, expressed as individual heads of the seven-headed beast from the sea, the two-horned beast is also represented as one of the seven heads. Which one? It is, obviously, the last one of the seven. Read more> https://e-watchman.com/meaning-beast-rising-earth/

The Now-Emerging Eighth King> https://e-watchman.com/the-now-emerging-eighth-king/​

The Eighth King> https://e-watchman.com/the-eighth-king/​

 

[wth]

Oh .Yes the king on the south is subjugated to the King of the north by becoming has dumb Giant while the King of North become the Brain's. They both have a symbiotic relationship.They both feed out each other.Is this correct?

 

[Brian]

Check check check

 

[Brian]

Check check check

Just checking everything is working regarding the site, looks like all is well!

 

[Watchman]

I have spoken before of Lyndon LaRouche being my secular tutor, if you want to call it that. My understanding of the conflict between the kings of the North and South in modern times is based upon LaRouche's explanation of the ongoing war between the British Empire and the US Republic. Some years ago EIR published an article entitled Why the British Kill American Presidents. If anyone is inclined this recently published article on LPac expands upon that theme. It addresses some of the myths people commonly believe, no doubt the GB included.

A Police Dossier: It is the British Who Murder Our Presidents

What you, the reader are about to embark on is a five-part series, titled “It is the British Who Murder Our Presidents.” This project was motivated by the deadly threat that now exists against the life of Donald Trump. The difficulty in this project is not “objective;” it is not that the...

www.larouchepac.com

 

[wth]

Yes I get it.the British have worked hard to promote the political agent.They have captured the Americans. In a sense making them there servant to the crown.But the Crown needs there dumb Gaint.Why would they want them destroyed?

 

[SusanB]

Yes I get it.the British have worked hard to promote the political agent.They have captured the Americans. In a sense making them there servant to the crown.But the Crown needs there dumb Gaint.Why would they want them destroyed?

I would guess that first of all the entire financial system cannot be salvaged and they are delaying the crash while they have setup a replacement that they themselves have created for their own benefit. The 8th King really represents the ultimate power grab, so the dumb giant will not be necessary.

 

[SusanB]

Daniel 8:23 gets our attention with the phrase, “king who understands ambiguous sayings”. There is a lot in this subheading that really hits home with what we are seeing today. But I want to keep this post brief and so I’ll quote the NWT and then one paragraph from Chapter 24.

NWT Daniel 8:23: “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up.”

“Interestingly, the New International Version renders Daniel 8:23 this way: “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern- faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise.” “A master of intrigue” well describes the masterful way the London-centered financial oligarchy has persuaded entire nations to adopt policies that are against their own interests. It is also well-known, for instance, that as a matter of policy, powerful banking interests loan money to both sides during times of war and have also been the unseen power-brokers behind communism. Intrigue indeed!”

Feel free to expand on what you find interesting.

 

[Watchman]

Yes I get it.the British have worked hard to promote the political agent.They have captured the Americans. In a sense making them there servant to the crown.But the Crown needs there dumb Gaint.Why would they want them destroyed?

Because the governments of sovereign nations can suddenly rouse themselves from their stupor and place the Wall Street/Central Bank system into receivership. I think the bankers know they are not getting any more bailouts. The Empire, which is to say the central bank creditors, intend to place America and Europe into bankruptcy first and foreclose on them. After the crash, there will still be a formidable military which can then be transferred to the command of the UN.