The Chosen TV Series

alan ford said:
One other thing that just occured to me when it comes to watering... Some people are like grass and require constant watering in order to not wither, yet others are like cactus and overwatering might produce the opposite effect. Just a thought I had...
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Strange you mentioned it. I have just murdered my orchid I have had for two years by over watering it! The prophets are arising!
 
alan ford said:
Today I spoke with an elder who told me about the experience he had with a priest. This brother was just getting acquainted with JW at the time and as he was learning more, he shared it with the priest and as they talked the priest revealed to him that he didn't really believe much of what bible was saying... a priest! He said that a lot of it is just stories... Imagine how he saw that priest after that. Pharisees also had this appearance, as do a lot of JW as most others as well. Of course we need to turn away from those. But people whose faith is genuine should not be dismissed just like that. God will lead them to accurate knowledge. All I'm saying is that we tend to be judgmental and condemn people who might not be at the same level of understanding and that's wrong. If Jehovah was judging as we do then almost no one would be acceptable to him. I mean just look at how every time people from different denominations discuss there is always disagreements about whose knowledge is correct and who is true religion and yada yada. In the meantime no one realizes that they are not displaying any Christlike qualities while they are doing so... It's all about me, me, me, mine...
Finally, since the topic is the series about Jesus, I watched it and I didn't find anything objectionable (yeah they did take some creative freedoms), but contrary to that it made me see Jesus as a real human unlike the plastic Jesus from most of the other movies and shows I've seen...
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The scriptures admonish us to "not throw pearls before swine", "do not be a friend of the world", "from these turn away", "get out of her my people" on and on. I was only responding to your stark statement in a previous post of yours wherein you seemed to indicate how wrong "judging" is. I agree about "do not judge lest ye be judged", but it is incumbent upon us to make certain judgment calls, to ascertain and take action against wrongdoing and or wrong thinking, to determine the difference between right and wrong, even if it is only a perception on our part. The english language probably needs another word for "judging". NOW you have adjusted your take on it by saying that our judgment is attached to condemnation. That is not entirely correct. I am saying that the scriptures mandate a measure of reasonable judging, but I get what you are TRYING to say. And I completely agree that if Jehovah finds hearts in the right place, He will certainly do the right thing in their case. That is completely obvious. As for the series, some people like it and some don't. As Tucker Carlson says....Period! LOL
 
Medi-tator said:
The scriptures admonish us to "not throw pearls before swine", "do not be a friend of the world", "from these turn away", "get out of her my people" on and on. I was only responding to your stark statement in a previous post of yours wherein you seemed to indicate how wrong "judging" is. I agree about "do not judge lest ye be judged", but it is incumbent upon us to make certain judgment calls, to ascertain and take action against wrongdoing and or wrong thinking, to determine the difference between right and wrong, even if it is only a perception on our part. The english language probably needs another word for "judging". NOW you have adjusted your take on it by saying that our judgment is attached to condemnation. That is not entirely correct. I am saying that the scriptures mandate a measure of reasonable judging, but I get what you are TRYING to say. And I completely agree that if Jehovah finds hearts in the right place, He will certainly do the right thing in their case. That is completely obvious. As for the series, some people like it and some don't. As Tucker Carlson says....Period! LOL
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Absolutely so. There are in fact a multiplicity of synonyms for judgement - calculated, meticulous, prudent, ‘figured’ (for Americans 🤗) and even to ‘tally’, and which in biblical terms has a reference or inference to collecting evidence for consideration in one‘s ‘judgement‘. You’re absolutely right in that in these days, to form a judgement in negative terms is thought discriminatory and they add to the confusion by suggesting that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Well, no! There is no natural right to an opinion if it is contrary to fact, or the conscience, or can result in harm. This is why we are given reasoning abilities. The problem arises when someone has to insist on their opinion; then there is not a lot that anyone else can do for their benefit. Thus conceding an entitlement to an opinion is simply an escape clause for the educated to get away! There is though, a solid contradiction to the above: there is no doubt when it comes to the truth, and no judgement stemming from that is incorrect. It either is, or is not truth. The only indecision in it is allowed during its consideration by we who are learning it. Hence a jury in courts of law. But indecision is not judgement. Truth cannot be challenged. (Ask Robert! ).
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Absolutely so. There are in fact a multiplicity of synonyms for judgement - calculated, meticulous, prudent, ‘figured’ (for Americans 🤗) and even to ‘tally’, and which in biblical terms has a reference or inference to collecting evidence for consideration in one‘s ‘judgement‘. You’re absolutely right in that in these days, to form a judgement in negative terms is thought discriminatory and they add to the confusion by suggesting that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Well, no! There is no natural right to an opinion if it is contrary to fact, or the conscience, or can result in harm. This is why we are given reasoning abilities. The problem arises when someone has to insist on their opinion; then there is not a lot that anyone else can do for their benefit. Thus conceding an entitlement to an opinion is simply an escape clause for the educated to get away! There is though, a solid contradiction to the above: there is no doubt when it comes to the truth, and no judgement stemming from that is incorrect. It either is, or is not truth. The only indecision in it is allowed during its consideration by we who are learning it. Hence a jury in courts of law. But indecision is not judgement. Truth cannot be challenged. (Ask Robert! ).
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And, I will add that no one is exempt from being corrected by scripture. But in order to not be twisting scripture you have to know the balance in the bible and let scripture explain scripture. Otherwise what you have is not truth at all.
 
Medi-tator said:
The scriptures admonish us to "not throw pearls before swine", "do not be a friend of the world", "from these turn away", "get out of her my people" on and on.
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I understand. I realize that these scriptures apply to the resisters and opposers. Yeah, as in the first century with gnosticism and all of the other twisted doctrines they came up with, in the same way today, we can recognize those we need to turn away from. Like for example pretersits, socinians docetists and you-name-it... we can judge that their teaching is twisted, because it denies certain aspects of the scriptures that we know are correct. In fact “All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the faith and correcting error, for re-setting the direction of a man’s life and training him in good living” as you pointed out previously.
Medi-tator said:
The english language probably needs another word for "judging". NOW you have adjusted your take on it by saying that our judgment is attached to condemnation.
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Probably does. I find english kinda hard to express myself as it lacks (as far as I am aware) a lot of concepts that are present in my language but it's not that big a problem, as there's this thing called roundabout way of speaking lol (actually there is a word in english for that -- circumlocution) :)
As for condemnation I didn't mean anyone specifically but we as in humans... I pointed out how people from different denominations when they discuss these things tend to do it because of the differences in understanding. But anyway... I guess my point is that we tend to be rigid in our beliefs as if we are completely correct in our understanding. Pharisees come to mind... But if people accept the ransom sacrifice, keep the commandment to love God and their neighbour and apply the "golden rule" in their life, does it matter if a doctrine they hold is not completely correct? Did rigid adherence to the letter of law save Jews? No, because by strictly adhering to the letter they neglected the heart of the law. Will the doctrine save us if we bear no fruits of the spirit? I think those are the important things. That fact shouldn't be overlooked as that will help us during the GT and beyond. When Jesus came to earth his message was different to what Jews were used to, and they rejected him. Will we reject the two witnesses when they step onto the scene because they might say something new that we're not used to? Religion has set up these expectations that we tend to adopt as if they are what will actually happen and there are countless examples of failed expectations throughout history. But this time it might be it... lol... The pattern is constantly repeating. In any case I think there will be enough time after that to correct any wrong understanding, but for now we shouldn't neglect cultivating the fruitage... So back to the series... if this show has helped people to recognize their spiritual need and to nudge them to start looking into God's word, correct their behaviour and reshape their hearts, I think that's a positive thing.

On a side note, I've read recently (can't remember where) that today, Christians are the most persecuted group in the world. They suffer a lot and in some cases die because of Christ, even though their "Christology" is "not approved"... Few years back there was this group of Christians in Lybia that were beheaded because they didn't renounce Christ. I think they were Coptic. Do you think that their "martyrdom" is invalid? Do you think that Jesus wouldn't appreciate their suffering for his name because they hold different doctrine? Idk this issue is not so black and white and we are not equipped to make those judgments (except the basic ones as you pointed). That's why I said it's Jehovah's jurisdiction. And thanks God that we don't have that right.
 
SusanB said:
Finally Paul got tired of it and turned and said to the spirit: “I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour.”
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There is a very good reason Paul "got tired of it." The demon could not possibly have been mistaken for having any good intentions for proclaiming "these men are slaves of the most high God." I think it very likely, if you think about it, the demon was mocking them. Regardless this demon who is condemned to death could not possibly have had any good motive.

On the other hand, humans because of our inherited imperfections, unlike Satan, the demons, and Adam and Eve, when they sinned there was no redemption for them, however, for the very large and vast majority of us, final judgement has not happened yet. Jesus apostles had a lot of their own preconceived ideas about what the Messiah was going to do, right up until his death. Peter himself, "be good to yourself lord, this will not be your fate at all."

The Chosen is based on the Bible, "which is alive" and while I agree, they clearly do not have the "truth" and may not be true worshipers, the Bible IS the source material, and I personally think they have done a very good job and have enjoyed watching it with my daughter. You have the right to disagree, but I have the same right. I know all the scriptures too quoted here. But the scriptures you quoted from in Revelation, were sent to the congregations of actual anointed Christians. We have to consider the context. Jesus said the thing he said to those congregations because they had NOT been misled by false teachers. They had been taught by his apostles and disciples.

History is repeating itself. Those in Christendom are in the exact same position that the Jews in Jesus day were in. "Sheep cast about without a Shepard."

One last thing I would like to point out. I think we can all agree, Jehovah has made sure the Bible was made available to just about everyone on earth. When Christs brothers come on the scene, the most receptive ones to their message will be these professed Christians. History will repeat itself, and the message will brought to "Christians" first, the same way the Jews were preached to first!

Now, if The Chosen was blatantly not Biblical, that would be different. But to my point that Jehovah made sure his word was made available to most people on earth, then HE is the author.

I think ask yourself if Jehovah would stop someone from using his word to praise him and his son, rather than thinking he would not allow it. Again, in the case of the demons, that is why they are silenced, they do not have a good motive, even when they tell the truth so I am not talking about the demons.


So rather then look at this as a "black and white" scenario, we have to look at all factors. One of which is why God has allowed this system to go on this long. Remember the bible also said, God doesn't need people to declare the good news, he could use the "rocks to cry out".
 
Nomex said:
Those in Christendom are in the exact same position that the Jews in Jesus day were in. "Sheep cast about without a Shepard."
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And all are being led by "hired men"

Nomex said:
When Christs brothers come on the scene, the most receptive ones to their message will be these professed Christians. History will repeat itself, and the message will brought to "Christians" first, the same way the Jews were preached to first!
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This is basically how I see it and I guess I was trying to arrive at that conclusion but couldn't really formulate it so succintly. All this makes me wonder whether the "this good news will be preached" part from Mt 24 actually applies to that period especially because when you look at the context the preaching is mentioned together with tribulation. I wonder what the "good news" actually means in this particular context... is it the news that the kingdom has come, as opposed to the present "kingdom will come"? What do you think?
 
alan ford said:
I wonder what the "good news" actually means in this particular context... is it the news that the kingdom has come, as opposed to the present "kingdom will come"? What do you think?
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I think you're exactly right, it will be "The Kingdom has arrived". It will be a message that Jesus has begun ruling in the midst of his enemies and there will be actual evidence, like the evidence Moses asked God for, to verify that Jehovah had sent him. No honest hearted person questioned Jesus "credentials".

He provided it, he evidenced the fact that he was the Messiah in spades. Imagine a person who has Christ's authority, and God given power that they will be able to display, and then that person explains the Bible. The "crowds" will follow them. These will be the survivors of the great tribulation, who "convert" as you will, (they will chose God) and they will be the one's who make up the "Great Crowd" who come out of the Great Tribulation, not the 1% of 1% of Jehovah's Witnesses who make up a tiny minority of the earths population.


That's what I think!
 
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Nomex said:
I think you're exactly right, it will be "The Kingdom has arrived". It will be a message that Jesus has begun ruling in the midst of his enemies and there will be actual evidence, like the evidence Moses asks God for, to verify that Jehovah had sent him. No honest hearted person questioned Jesus "credentials".

He provided it, he evidenced the fact that he was the Messiah in spades. Imagine a person who has Christ's authority, and God given power that they will be able to display, and then that person explains the Bible. The "crowds" will follow them. These will be the survivors of the great tribulation, who "convert" as you will, (they will chose God) and they will be the one's who make up the "Great Crowd" who come out of the Great Tribulation, not the 1% of 1% of Jehovah's Witnesses who make up a tiny minority of the earths population.


That's what I think!
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That is exactly the view I have. Thanks for explaining it so nicely! 🙏
 
Nomex said:
Those in Christendom are in the exact same position that the Jews in Jesus day were in.
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I was just thinking about this and this came up in my mind... Jews were to keep the law, which would later be fulfilled in Messiah. And since we draw this parallel to Jews, we could ask ourselves what is the "law" that we are under? Well, Jesus gave us the comand to love God, to love our neighbour, to apply the "golden rule" in our lives in order to produce the fruitage of the holy spirit. And also to make disciples. This is basically the law for us, or rather the principle which we should use to transform ourselves in order to become more like Jesus so that we can be acceptable to God. I feel this is the heart of the issue. All of the "we're the only ones right" and "no we are, you don't get it..." is part of the deception.
 
alan ford said:
I feel this is the heart of the issue. All of the "we're the only ones right" and "no we are, you don't get it..." is part of the deception.
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100%. It's like when i was growing up, and you'd say to your parents, "well so and so is a really good person." And your parents would say, "well they don't know Jehovah." Yeah, well who are you, that you are so arrogant to claim YOU know Jehovah?


We are all victims of the ruler of this world, the father of the lie, we are all, to one degree or another deceived. The only question then should be, "are we willing to listen, when we hear the truth?"
 
Nomex said:
100%. It's like when i was growing up, and you'd say to your parents, "well so and so is a really good person." And your parents would say, "well they don't know Jehovah." Yeah, well who are you, that you are so arrogant to claim YOU know Jehovah?


We are all victims of the ruler of this world, the father of the lie, we are all, to one degree or another deceived. The only question then should be, "are we willing to listen, when we hear the truth?"
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You nailed it again. How do you say... a hat-trick? 👌
 
Nomex said:
100%. It's like when i was growing up, and you'd say to your parents, "well so and so is a really good person." And your parents would say, "well they don't know Jehovah." Yeah, well who are you, that you are so arrogant to claim YOU know Jehovah?


We are all victims of the ruler of this world, the father of the lie, we are all, to one degree or another deceived. The only question then should be, "are we willing to listen, when we hear the truth?"
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Indeed. No one says it better than John as he quotes Jesus at John 4:23. God is looking for such like ones to worship him. Spirit and truth encompasses and envelopes love, compassion, golden rule etal. Nice and simple.
 
Medi-tator said:
Not necessarily Brother Alan. I am going to humbly request you reconsider your statement above. When considering 2 Tim 3: 1-5, particularly verse 5 if I were to single one out, think JW's during Covid and not just the "from these turn away" portion.
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I guess I can see it that way too. I didn't have in mind any one group in particular, but I agree with what you are saying. And to add, vss 6 and 7 also drive the point home.
 
Medi-tator said:
but it is incumbent upon us to make certain judgment calls, to ascertain and take action against wrongdoing and or wrong thinking, to determine the difference between right and wrong, even if it is only a perception on our part.
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I am going to take you to task on this and show how this is not wrong, but is wrong.

First of all, we have to have scales. What do I man by "scales"? It's the same thing as a scale we use to weigh us. How do you calibrate a scale?
Well, I'm glad you asked. I actually use scales in my work. And therefore I know how to calibrate a scale.

The first thing you need is a weight that is "calibrated" to that exact weight. So you zero out your "scale". You place your calibrated weight on the scale, you zero it out again, remove the weight, and zero out the scale again. Now your scale reads zero exactly.

However, if your weight you used to calibrate your scale was wrong, nothing you put on the scale will measure accurately. And it only has to be wrong a tiny amount. The weight we use to "calibrate" the scale is wrong! Because the way we interpret the scale is wrong, because we are imperfect! We cannot and should not be dogmatic in our measurement of what we think. Our measurement might be very, very close, but it might also be off, just enough!

Just enough to be wrong!
 
Nomex said:
However, if your weight you used to calibrate your scale was wrong, nothing you put on the scale will measure accurately. And it only has to be wrong a tiny amount. The weight we use to "calibrate" the scale is wrong! Because the way we interpret the scale is wrong, because we are imperfect! We cannot and should not be dogmatic in our measurement of what we think. Our measurement might be very, very close, but it might also be off, just enough!

Just enough to be wrong!
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You are so right! I have known that for a long time. Ever since I became a father to a baby girl 47 years ago, I knew that I would use false counterweights while calibrating my scales of justice and consciously decide to be "dogmatic" in my approach to anyone who touched my daughter inappropriately. You can use all the artfully contrived false stories you want on me my dear brother, but by any measurement, true or false, if someone goes after my daughter or my wife in a wrong way, I likely will not inherit God's Kingdom if I were to be the judge of my actions. Did I interpret your "task taking" correctly?
 
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