Chapter 18 - Joel

SusanB

SusanB

Well-known member
Here is the link to the audio and written chapter: http://jehovah-is-king.com/joel/

The book of Joel is short but dynamic with just 3 chapters. This chapter begins by quoting Joel 1:4:

“What was left by the devouring locust, the swarming locust has eaten; and what was left by the swarming locust, the unwinged locust has eaten; and what the unwinged locust has left, the voracious locust has eaten.”

Robert King’s commentary starts off this abbreviated message:

“Swarming insects can be one of the most devastating natural forces on earth. A flying army of locusts can be as thick as a thundercloud—darkening the sky as they descend upon a ripened field—reducing it to mere stubble in a matter of minutes….

The Bible book of Joel presages not only a locust plague, but also an onslaught by an array of bothersome pests; including the voracious creeping caterpillar, the unwinged locust, and the loathsome cockroach. However, even more disconcerting is that these are not ordinary swarming insects, but are a representation of a mighty contingent of warriors that also resemble lions in their ferocity. The prophecy of Joel foretells that this irresistible military force will sweep the globe and bring devastation to the entire earth! That is no ordinary insect infestation!

The horrific, unstoppable, insect-like assault is a precursor to the great and fear- inspiring day of Jehovah and initiates the beginning of Judgment Day for the house of God. What, then, does this peculiar insect plague signify? ….”

Hopefully if we understand as much as we can about the book of Joel, we won’t be surprised or caught off guard when it happens.
 
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The Final Edition of JHBK was written in 2016. Since then the WT has come out with "new light." While they sheepishly admitted that their long-held belief that the locust swarm represents Jehovah's Witnesses didn't make any sense, astonishingly, they now claim that the symbolic locust plague has no modern fulfillment, that it was all fulfilled when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem, even though the prophecy does not even mention Babylon or the Chaldeans. They don't see any significance in the fact that the book of Joel speaks of the coming of the day of Jehovah five times!

Of course, it is not realistic to expect the Watchtower to identify themselves as the spiritually drunken elders to whom the prophecy is addressed.
 
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Still, I have to admit, in all the years I have been looking at this prophecy I cannot say with certainty what the locusts represent. I do not think it is knowable. Is it literal armies? Robots? Perhaps a cyber attack that crashes the financial system, hence climbing over protective walls and through open windows to reach into every home and plunder everyone? Maybe a combination?
 
Watchman said:
Still, I have to admit, in all the years I have been looking at this prophecy I cannot say with certainty what the locusts represent. I do not think it is knowable. Is it literal armies? Robots? Perhaps a cyber attack that crashes the financial system, hence climbing over protective walls and through open windows to reach into every home and plunder everyone? Maybe a combination?
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What springs to mind are demons, but I can only guess.
 
SusanB said:
Here is the link to the audio and written chapter: http://jehovah-is-king.com/joel/

The book of Joel is short but dynamic with just 3 chapters. This chapter begins by quoting Joel 1:4:

“What was left by the devouring locust, the swarming locust has eaten; and what was left by the swarming locust, the unwinged locust has eaten; and what the unwinged locust has left, the voracious locust has eaten.”

Robert King’s commentary starts off this abbreviated message:

“Swarming insects can be one of the most devastating natural forces on earth. A flying army of locusts can be as thick as a thundercloud—darkening the sky as they descend upon a ripened field—reducing it to mere stubble in a matter of minutes….

The Bible book of Joel presages not only a locust plague, but also an onslaught by an array of bothersome pests; including the voracious creeping caterpillar, the unwinged locust, and the loathsome cockroach. However, even more disconcerting is that these are not ordinary swarming insects, but are a representation of a mighty contingent of warriors that also resemble lions in their ferocity. The prophecy of Joel foretells that this irresistible military force will sweep the globe and bring devastation to the entire earth! That is no ordinary insect infestation!

The horrific, unstoppable, insect-like assault is a precursor to the great and fear- inspiring day of Jehovah and initiates the beginning of Judgment Day for the house of God. What, then, does this peculiar insect plague signify? ….”

Hopefully if we understand as much as we can about the book of Joel, we won’t be surprised or caught off guard when it happens.
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I doubt if it’s a question of being caught off guard unfortunately. There is no depth yet plumbed to which mankind will not sink. Expect the worst beyond imagining. The issue of a military force enveloping the whole world is difficult to imagine in terms of logistics. The major combatants of this world are already over-reached in conventional weaponry and invading armies cannot go where nuclear fission has gone before, neither can food supplies. And there is nothing there anyway except what is burnt to a cinder. Demons can go where they want though. No food required, no harm can come to them at that time from man and yet there must be a going concern for mankind to choose between God and man. But that is simply my guesswork. I am of a mind just to deal with it when it gets here. All that is required of us is to choose a side and it is ourselves who are our own worst enemy! It is our moment of weakness we should fear the most. I’m content with that. As for attackers; I suppose I could throw my walking stick at someone in self defence, but that’s about the limit for me.
 
To me there are different types of insects and plagues devastating the earth now. The gay and trans agendas, climate change activists, demonic poisonous injections,corrupt government, and for Gods house, that’s easy. An army of ex Jw’s relentlessly exposing Watchtower for what it is. A complete onslaught and fitting pre cursor to Jehovah’s judgement. Only my opinion of course.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
What springs to mind are demons, but I can only guess.
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No doubt demons will be the driving force. I think the locust onslaught coincides with what is stated in the 12th chapter of Revelation concerning what Satan does after he is ousted from heaven and hurled down to the earth: "And the serpent spewed out water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon spewed out from its mouth. So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus."

Incredibly, at no time have Jehovah's Witnesses ever anticipated any sort of future event such as described in Joel or in Revelation. Everything is either in the past or present. And now with the Watchtower's "new light" on Joel, it is relegated to the distant past.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
I doubt if it’s a question of being caught off guard unfortunately. There is no depth yet plumbed to which mankind will not sink. Expect the worst beyond imagining. The issue of a military force enveloping the whole world is difficult to imagine in terms of logistics. The major combatants of this world are already over-reached in conventional weaponry and invading armies cannot go where nuclear fission has gone before, neither can food supplies. And there is nothing there anyway except what is burnt to a cinder. Demons can go where they want though. No food required, no harm can come to them at that time from man and yet there must be a going concern for mankind to choose between God and man. But that is simply my guesswork. I am of a mind just to deal with it when it gets here. All that is required of us is to choose a side and it is ourselves who are our own worst enemy! It is our moment of weakness we should fear the most. I’m content with that. As for attackers; I suppose I could throw my walking stick at someone in self defence, but that’s about the limit for me.
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Might have seen a swarm gathering in N.Korea?
 
Some scriptures for thought in relation to Revelations chapter 12:
15 And the serpent disgorged water+ like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river.+ 16 But the earth came to the woman’s help,+ and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth. 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman,+ and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness*+ to Jesus.

Psalm 105:25​

25 He let their heart change to hate his people,aTo behave cunningly against his servants.b

Matthew 2:16​

16 Then Herod, seeing he had been outwitted by the astrologers,* fell into a great rage, and he sent out and had all the boys in Bethʹle·hem and in all its districts done away with, from two years of age and under, according to the time that he had carefully ascertained from the astrologers.a

Acts 7:19​

19 This one used statecraft against our race*a and wrongfully forced the fathers to expose their infants, that they might not be preserved alive.b

Exodus1:1-22​

In time there arose over Egypt a new king who did not know Joseph.+ 9 And he proceeded to say to his people: “Look! The people of the sons of Israel are more numerous and mightier than we are.+ 10 Come on! Let us deal shrewdly with them,*+ for fear they may multiply, and it must turn out that, in case war should befall us,* then they certainly will also be added to those who hate us and will fight against us and go up out of the country.”11 So they set over them chiefs of forced labor for the purpose of oppressing them in their burden-bearing;+ and they went building cities as storage places for Pharʹaoh, namely, Piʹthom and Ra·amʹses.+ 12 But the more they would oppress them, the more they would multiply and the more they kept spreading abroad, so that they felt a sickening dread as a result of the sons of Israel.+ 13 Consequently the Egyptians made the sons of Israel slave under tyranny.+ 14 And they kept making their life bitter with hard slavery at clay mortar+ and bricks* and with every form of slavery in the field,+ yes, every form of slavery of theirs in which they used them as slaves under tyranny.+15 Later on the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives,+ the name of one of whom was Shiphʹrah and the name of the other Puʹah, 16 yes, he went so far as to say: “When YOU help the Hebrew women to give birth and YOU do see them on the stool for childbirth, if it is a son, YOU must also put it to death; but if it is a daughter, it must also live.” 17 However, the midwives feared the [true] God,+ and they did not do as the king of Egypt had spoken to them,+ but they would preserve the male children alive.+ 18 In time the king of Egypt called the midwives and said to them: “Why is it YOU have done this thing, in that YOU preserved the male children alive?”+ 19 In turn the midwives said to Pharʹaoh: “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women. Because they are lively, they have already given birth before the midwife can come in to them.”20 So God dealt well with the midwives;+ and the people kept growing more numerous and becoming very mighty. 21 And it came about that because the midwives had feared the [true] God he later presented them with families.*+ 22 Finally Pharʹaoh commanded all his people, saying: “Every newborn son YOU are to throw into the river Nile, but every daughter YOU are to preserve alive.”+
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
I doubt it. They are on starvation rations!
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Every reason to unleash them upon the nation that has sanctioned them to hell! That will be the reason Kim gives for thier starvation diet while he grows fat! Kim's top export is crystal meth: Remember he was caught exchanging meth for old russian cuban missiles? And since importing those old weapons from Cuba look how he has advanced! https://www.38north.org/2013/08/mhanham080113/ You don't go to such vengefull hatred without cause?
 
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Watchman said:
No doubt demons will be the driving force. I think the locust onslaught coincides with what is stated in the 12th chapter of Revelation concerning what Satan does after he is ousted from heaven and hurled down to the earth: "And the serpent spewed out water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon spewed out from its mouth. So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus."

Incredibly, at no time have Jehovah's Witnesses ever anticipated any sort of future event such as described in Joel or in Revelation. Everything is either in the past or present. And now with the Watchtower's "new light" on Joel, it is relegated to the distant past.
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Revelation is very figurative - I can not make head nor tail from it, but what it does signify for me is that the response to the demon attack (if that is what it is of course) will be something unimaginable in that the very earth responds. We see very little of what ‘nature’ can do in real terms, or how Jehovah may manipulate His own laws that govern everything to his own command. I think that is the point if it all. A demonstration of power beyond comprehension. We are mere bystanders.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Revelation is very figurative - I can not make head nor tail from it, but what it does signify for me is that the response to the demon attack (if that is what it is of course) will be something unimaginable in that the very earth responds. We see very little of what ‘nature’ can do in real terms, or how Jehovah may manipulate His own laws that govern everything to his own command. I think that is the point if it all. A demonstration of power beyond comprehension. We are mere bystanders.
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In order to get a better perspective of Revelations one must realize that Revelations chapter 12 is a summary of prophecies/events that were already fulfilled millenniums ago and then there are prophecies/events yet to be fulfilled all Consolidated into one chapter.
 
Bk Kevin said:
In order to get a better perspective of Revelations one must realize that Revelations chapter 12 is a summary of prophecies/events that were already fulfilled millenniums ago and then there are prophecies/events yet to be fulfilled all Consolidated into one chapter.
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Articles for study...

The Woman and the Fiery Red Dragon.> https://e-watchman.com/the-woman-and-the-fiery-red-dragon/​

Who Is the Woman of Prophecy?> https://e-watchman.com/woman-prophecy/​

The Seed and the Serpent> https://e-watchman.com/seed-and-the-serpent/​

 
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Bk Kevin said:
Some scriptures for thought in relation to Revelations chapter 12:
15 And the serpent disgorged water+ like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river.+ 16 But the earth came to the woman’s help,+ and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth. 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman,+ and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness*+ to Jesus.

Psalm 105:25​

25 He let their heart change to hate his people,aTo behave cunningly against his servants.b

Matthew 2:16​

16 Then Herod, seeing he had been outwitted by the astrologers,* fell into a great rage, and he sent out and had all the boys in Bethʹle·hem and in all its districts done away with, from two years of age and under, according to the time that he had carefully ascertained from the astrologers.a

Acts 7:19​

19 This one used statecraft against our race*a and wrongfully forced the fathers to expose their infants, that they might not be preserved alive.b

Exodus1:1-22​

In time there arose over Egypt a new king who did not know Joseph.+ 9 And he proceeded to say to his people: “Look! The people of the sons of Israel are more numerous and mightier than we are.+ 10 Come on! Let us deal shrewdly with them,*+ for fear they may multiply, and it must turn out that, in case war should befall us,* then they certainly will also be added to those who hate us and will fight against us and go up out of the country.”11 So they set over them chiefs of forced labor for the purpose of oppressing them in their burden-bearing;+ and they went building cities as storage places for Pharʹaoh, namely, Piʹthom and Ra·amʹses.+ 12 But the more they would oppress them, the more they would multiply and the more they kept spreading abroad, so that they felt a sickening dread as a result of the sons of Israel.+ 13 Consequently the Egyptians made the sons of Israel slave under tyranny.+ 14 And they kept making their life bitter with hard slavery at clay mortar+ and bricks* and with every form of slavery in the field,+ yes, every form of slavery of theirs in which they used them as slaves under tyranny.+15 Later on the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives,+ the name of one of whom was Shiphʹrah and the name of the other Puʹah, 16 yes, he went so far as to say: “When YOU help the Hebrew women to give birth and YOU do see them on the stool for childbirth, if it is a son, YOU must also put it to death; but if it is a daughter, it must also live.” 17 However, the midwives feared the [true] God,+ and they did not do as the king of Egypt had spoken to them,+ but they would preserve the male children alive.+ 18 In time the king of Egypt called the midwives and said to them: “Why is it YOU have done this thing, in that YOU preserved the male children alive?”+ 19 In turn the midwives said to Pharʹaoh: “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women. Because they are lively, they have already given birth before the midwife can come in to them.”20 So God dealt well with the midwives;+ and the people kept growing more numerous and becoming very mighty. 21 And it came about that because the midwives had feared the [true] God he later presented them with families.*+ 22 Finally Pharʹaoh commanded all his people, saying: “Every newborn son YOU are to throw into the river Nile, but every daughter YOU are to preserve alive.”+
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I just realized that your scriptures are links to the actual bible text. THANK YOU!! I know its time consuming to do that but so helpful to the reader. You’re awesome and that Psalms scripture is great.
 
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Even if the GB is not studying RK’s work, they should get an idea ( prehaps ? ) from the scriptures that a trampling of Jerusalem has an application future to the Roman attack.

There does not appear to be a celestial phenomenon that Jesus alluded to with regard the trampling of Jerusalem, connected to either sacking of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and the Romans.

Joel definitely connects ( or somewhat related to ) the locust attack with a celestial phenomenon. Joel 2:2, 10,

Joel describes a devastating attack by locusts. He is not specific about the mechanics of it

The point is that Joel is describing something for the future. as RK alluded to.
 
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