Chapter 18 - Joel

SusanB said:
I just realized that your scriptures are links to the actual bible text. THANK YOU!! I know it’s time consuming to do that but so helpful to the reader. You’re awesome and that Psalms scripture is great.
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It’s always helpful when people quote scriptures and where they can be found. I just get glimmers of scriptures from my memory now. They float about like the floaters in my eyes aimless and without an anchor and from where they come from in the book I cant recall, they are just a memory. I worry sometimes if I will get to the stage of “Jehovah Who?rather than Jehovah God!” Kevin forms a very useful refresher read for me, providing an anchor for my memory.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
It’s always helpful when people quote scriptures and where they can be found. I just get glimmers of scriptures from my memory now. They float about like the floaters in my eyes aimless and without an anchor and from where they come from in the book I cant recall, they are just a memory. I worry sometimes if I will get to the stage of “Jehovah Who? rather than Jehovah God!” Kevin forms a very useful refresher read for me, providing an anchor for my memory.
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Just to let everyone know I also often remember the scriptural quote I would like to use but most of the time I have to look up the author as well as the location of the scripture as to recap the events.
 
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Remember when the ORG quoted someone, I think CTRussell, who said that if the money dries up that will be evidence that they no longer have Jehovah’s support or approval? Something along those lines. Jehovah in fact foretold that he would withdraw his blessing from his people. Here is how Robert King describes it.

”Even a casual reading should impress upon the reader that the prophecy of Joel presages a visitation of a unique and horrific catastrophe upon the world; and in particular, how that calamity will impact those who are recognized by Jehovah as his people.

Couched in oracular vernacular, the book of Joel plainly sets forth that the symbolic insect invasion is a disaster for Jehovah’s people. That is why Jehovah calls it “my land, my vine, my fig tree”—stating at Joel 1:6-7: “For a nation has come up into my land, mighty and without number. Its teeth are the teeth of a lion, and its jaws are those of a lion. It has devastated my vine and turned my fig tree into a stump, stripping them completely bare and tossing them aside, leaving their twigs white.”

Unquestionably, the object of the devastation is God’s own possession.

At Joel 1:13-14, God addresses himself to the leading older men and priests who are ministering at the altar in the house of Jehovah, saying to them: “Put on sackcloth and mourn, you priests; wail, you ministers of the altar. Come in and spend the night in sackcloth, you ministers of my God; for grain offering and drink offering have been withheld from the house of your God. Proclaim a fast; call for a solemn assembly. Gather the elders together, with all the inhabitants of the land, to the house of Jehovah your God, and cry to Jehovah for help.”

My guess is that many, even some who comment here, who are PIMO have stopped or reduced their donations. The POMO’s have stopped all donations but that goes without saying. Even small decreases in donations along with the effects of inflation will create pain for the GB. And, that doesn’t include those who may be financially unable to donate because of the financial stresses that began with the COVID lockdown.
 
SusanB said:
Remember when the ORG quoted someone, I think CTRussell, who said that if the money dries up that will be evidence that they no longer have Jehovah’s support or approval? Something along those lines. Jehovah in fact foretold that he would withdraw his blessing from his people. Here is how Robert King describes it.

”Even a casual reading should impress upon the reader that the prophecy of Joel presages a visitation of a unique and horrific catastrophe upon the world; and in particular, how that calamity will impact those who are recognized by Jehovah as his people.

Couched in oracular vernacular, the book of Joel plainly sets forth that the symbolic insect invasion is a disaster for Jehovah’s people. That is why Jehovah calls it “my land, my vine, my fig tree”—stating at Joel 1:6-7: “For a nation has come up into my land, mighty and without number. Its teeth are the teeth of a lion, and its jaws are those of a lion. It has devastated my vine and turned my fig tree into a stump, stripping them completely bare and tossing them aside, leaving their twigs white.”

Unquestionably, the object of the devastation is God’s own possession.

At Joel 1:13-14, God addresses himself to the leading older men and priests who are ministering at the altar in the house of Jehovah, saying to them: “Put on sackcloth and mourn, you priests; wail, you ministers of the altar. Come in and spend the night in sackcloth, you ministers of my God; for grain offering and drink offering have been withheld from the house of your God. Proclaim a fast; call for a solemn assembly. Gather the elders together, with all the inhabitants of the land, to the house of Jehovah your God, and cry to Jehovah for help.”

My guess is that many, even some who comment here, who are PIMO have stopped or reduced their donations. The POMO’s have stopped all donations but that goes without saying. Even small decreases in donations along with the effects of inflation will create pain for the GB. And, that doesn’t include those who may be financially unable to donate because of the financial stresses that began with the COVID lockdown.
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I was always convinced by the scripture stating that Jehovah owns all the gold and silver in the earth and thus reasoned that He did not need my money. I gave of my time - at least that is how I justified myself - and thus when I did put a bit of money in the box, it was only very little. I give to my children. They need it. As a child, my parents hung onto their money and kept any pocket money they said they would “give me” because I “would only spend it”. Really? Was that not what it was for? That was my first experience of gas-lighting and was an insoluble conundrum for me to ponder upon. When my father died, I worked out that he owed me ten shillings when he died - about half a dollar - and I still intend to ask of it back from him if we meet again. In the interim, as a child, I used to raid my sister‘s piggy-bank if I needed sweets. Desperate times.
 
So many of us on the forum as well as perhaps some we know that are not on the forum would love to see the GB and Elders just tell the truth, admit their error and publicly ask Jehovah for forgiveness. Another forum member challenged the idea that the GB was aware of the danger of the COVID vaccines in the beginning, but surely they know now. No excuses for not knowing now. If I know so many of the brothers and sisters who have died or are injured, I guarantee you, the Elders and the GB know. So, how would one explain why they haven’t admitted the error. In fact, they are still requiring the vaccine for the schools and the full time workers. That eliminates any possibility of innocence in my mind. Under the subheading, “WAKE UP, YOU DRUNKARDS, AND WEEP AND HOWL”, we find these important points.

“Hence, we read at Joel 2:12-13 these words: “‘Yet even now,’ declares Jehovah, ‘return to me with all your hearts, with fasting and weeping and wailing. Rip apart your hearts, and not your garments, and return to Jehovah your God, for he is compassionate and merciful, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love, and he will reconsider the calamity.’”

Clearly, God is making an impassioned plea to those whom he recognizes as formerly serving him acceptably, but who, for whatever reason, have become estranged from their God. Obviously, that is why God implores his people to “come back to Jehovah your God.”

Also, the prophecy refers to the “ministers of Jehovah” and the nation under siege as Jehovah’s “inheritance”? For instance, Joel 2:17 reads: “Let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say: ‘Do feel pity, O Jehovah, for your people; do not make your inheritance an object of scorn, letting the nations rule over them. Why should the peoples say, ‘Where is their God?’ Then Jehovah will be zealous for his land and show compassion on his people.”

What is the setting during which “Jehovah will be zealous for his land and show compassion on his people”? The circumstances that move God to act in behalf of his people are a result of the sorry state to which God’s people are reduced as a result of the invasion of the great military force, when nations rule over them. According to the writings of Paul, the house of God is the organization made up of anointed Christians.

The mourning priests in the prophecy of Joel, called the “ministers of Jehovah,” must, therefore, picture the individual members of those anointed who are called to be priests. Just as the literal priests in the temple offered up regular grain and drink offerings, so too, the Bible symbolizes the spiritual offerings of anointed Christians as being priestly sacrifices in the sanctuary of God.

Joel harmonizes with the prophecy of Daniel, which depicts a fierce looking king trampling upon God’s spiritual sanctuary and causing the “constant feature” of sacrifice to cease for a time. So, in harmony with Isaiah and Daniel, and numerous other prophecies as well, the prophecy of Joel is foretelling how the congregation of Christ will be laid low during a time of unprecedented calamity.
 
All of us who have been reading and listening to Robert King realize that the Watchtower will fall like the whitewashed wall described in Ezekiel. But now it does seem imminent and so for me this is a good reminder because the brothers and sisters will be scattered and I hope we can each strengthen them to rely solely on Jehovah and Jesus if given the opportunity. And, there is constant evidence that with their own words they condemn themselves. Here is an except from the subheading, “MINISTERS OF JEHOVAH ARE IN MOURNING”:

“But speaking in the symbolisms of an agrarian culture, Joel 1:15-17 foretells that calamitous developments are destined to befall Christ’s congregation as a result of God’s denunciation: “Woe because of the day! For the day of Jehovah is near, and it will come like a destruction from the Almighty! Has not food been taken from before our very eyes, and rejoicing and joy from the house of our God? The seeds have shriveled under their shovels. Storehouses are desolate. Granaries have been torn down, for the grain has dried up.”

Just as Joel’s prophecy is not foretelling a literal invasion of locusts, caterpillars and cockroaches, neither is it talking about literal food being “cut off before our very eyes.” It is describing the despoiling of spiritual food! That is apparent because the cutting-off of food is directly connected to rejoicing and joyfulness ceasing at “the house of our God.”
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The Watchtower inadvertently predicts the very thing that Joel long ago prophesied would befall Jehovah’s people. Here is what the June 1, 1965, Watchtower had to say in regards to itself being the vital channel of Jehovah’s communication: “This slave class serves as an earthly channel of communication for God’s people, providing them with an understanding of Jehovah’s purposes and giving them direction in the doing of his will. With such direction they are enlightened, strengthened and are united in their worship of the only true and living God. Without this means of communication they would be scattered and lost.”

Essentially, the prophets foretell the very thing that the organization only states as a hypothetical possibility in regards to individuals being “scattered and lost” should they ever be cut-off from “this means of communication.”

…There is no other reasonable conclusion that can be drawn except that the prophecy of Joel portends the utter collapse of the house of God.”

I am also thinking it is ironic that those under the mind control of the GB think worshippers like many of us who no longer attend meetings, have left Jehovah but when the Watchtower is destroyed they will no doubt wonder if Jehovah has left them.
 
SusanB said:
All of us who have been reading and listening to Robert King realize that the Watchtower will fall like the whitewashed wall described in Ezekiel. But now it does seem imminent and so for me this is a good reminder because the brothers and sisters will be scattered and I hope we can each strengthen them to rely solely on Jehovah and Jesus if given the opportunity. And, there is constant evidence that with their own words they condemn themselves. Here is an except from the subheading, “MINISTERS OF JEHOVAH ARE IN MOURNING”:

“But speaking in the symbolisms of an agrarian culture, Joel 1:15-17 foretells that calamitous developments are destined to befall Christ’s congregation as a result of God’s denunciation: “Woe because of the day! For the day of Jehovah is near, and it will come like a destruction from the Almighty! Has not food been taken from before our very eyes, and rejoicing and joy from the house of our God? The seeds have shriveled under their shovels. Storehouses are desolate. Granaries have been torn down, for the grain has dried up.”

Just as Joel’s prophecy is not foretelling a literal invasion of locusts, caterpillars and cockroaches, neither is it talking about literal food being “cut off before our very eyes.” It is describing the despoiling of spiritual food! That is apparent because the cutting-off of food is directly connected to rejoicing and joyfulness ceasing at “the house of our God.”
…
The Watchtower inadvertently predicts the very thing that Joel long ago prophesied would befall Jehovah’s people. Here is what the June 1, 1965, Watchtower had to say in regards to itself being the vital channel of Jehovah’s communication: “This slave class serves as an earthly channel of communication for God’s people, providing them with an understanding of Jehovah’s purposes and giving them direction in the doing of his will. With such direction they are enlightened, strengthened and are united in their worship of the only true and living God. Without this means of communication they would be scattered and lost.”

Essentially, the prophets foretell the very thing that the organization only states as a hypothetical possibility in regards to individuals being “scattered and lost” should they ever be cut-off from “this means of communication.”

…There is no other reasonable conclusion that can be drawn except that the prophecy of Joel portends the utter collapse of the house of God.”

I am also thinking it is ironic that those under the mind control of the GB think worshippers like many of us who no longer attend meetings, have left Jehovah but when the Watchtower is destroyed they will no doubt wonder if Jehovah has left them.
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The watchtower has driven many to the edge of sanity for over a century with its end days and imminent coming of Christ. I think we have all get that way at one point or another. The difficulty is to keep faith for the correct reason - the love of righteousness and not so much the reward, though the two are as close as the marrow and the bone. After all, the love of what is right and holy, brings with it the joy of living in such a paradise of peace.

I feel the critical problem for the sleepy sheep is that watchtower only offers the reward now, as bait, and not the truth that produces the faith to believe in the qualifications required. Anyone qualifies so long as they say they believe what watchtower tells them to believe. Their spiel is more akin to buying a modern house - described as a “family home” it is no more that a wood frame box with a half inch thick faux brick skin on the outside. Same with their truth - the whitewashed wall. There is no strength in faith based on a lie. There is little enough strength when faith is based on truth, given our weaknesses. It is no small wonder then that the end comes when least expected. I think we should all start not expecting it - it might hurry things along.
 
Under the Subheading, “FOR MY PEOPLE THEY CAST LOTS” there is a description of an event that, in my mind, will be a turning point that presents more of challenge to the faith of each brother and sister than the COVID vaccines and that is when the Watchtower is destroyed but false religion still exists. I know for me, before COVID, I did not even entertain that possibility and I don’t think the brothers and sisters have even considered that possible. It will surely be a rude awakening for them. Here is an except from that subheading.

“The truth that will inevitably confront Jehovah’s Witnesses is that the organization is destined to go into babylonish captivity in the near future. That is because the religious system known as Babylon the Great will initially survive the take-down of the present economic and political system. And rather than Christendom being destroyed by the eighth king at the beginning of the tribulation, as the Watchtower unwarrantably insists, Jehovah’s Witnesses will find themselves under the boot heel of the tyrannical last king and his whorish religious consort during the initial phase of the day of Jehovah. The following scripture is yet to be fulfilled with respect to God’s people: “For my people they cast lots; they would trade a boy to hire a prostitute and sell a girl for wine to drink.” (Joel 3:3)

If that is not the case, then let the Watchtower’s seers coherently interpret the meaning of Joel 3:1-2, which reads: “For look! in those days and in that time, when I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather together all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. I will enter into judgment with them there in behalf of my people and my inheritance Israel, for they scattered them among the nations, and they divided up my land among themselves.”

According to the Watchtower’s moth-eaten interpretation of Joel, the clergy are the objects of devastation. Yet, the concluding chapter of the prophecy depicts Jehovah gathering back the captive ones of his people as an immediate prelude to Armageddon. Obviously, the captives are made such by the calamity described in the prophecy. So, it is apparent that the final gathering of those who will ultimately receive salvation takes place during the day of Jehovah.”
 
When reviewing the end of the subheading: “Minister’s of Jehovah Are in Mourning”, it brought to my mind how important it is to “seek” Jehovah and perhaps the manipulation of the ORG makes it more difficult for the rank and file to do that. They are so busy keeping up with the ORG and thinking they are keeping up with Jehovah’s chariot. So, I thought I would highlight this scripture. Once the Watchtower falls, those who recognize that they have been following on a wrong path, will hopefully seek the truth from God’s word.

Zephaniah 2:3: “Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, Who observe his righteous decrees. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you will be concealed on the day of Jehovah’s anger.”

With that scripture in mind, a quote from Robert King’s book really brings into focus the importance of seeking Jehovah’s righteousness.

“Jehovah’s Witnesses—like domestic cattle that depend upon their human owner for feedstock—will lose their spiritual pasturage and wander about dazed and confused at the unexpected turn of events!

Christ’s droves of sheep will bear the brunt of punishment for the Society’s lack of insight into the vital prophecies that foretell the very catastrophe that will soon cause the complete desolation of that which is known as Jehovah’s visible organization.

The collapse of the Watchtower institution will signal the end of the field ministry of Jehovah’s Witnesses in its present and familiar form. That is because the worldwide preaching work of Jehovah’s Witnesses is entirely dependent upon the constant direction from and regular publications of the Watchtower Society.

Tragically, those many householders who are at that time dependent upon the study aids and continual visits of Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as those untold millions who have not yet been contacted, will then be lost—as the prophecy says: “the harvest of the field has perished.”
 
Yeah, like I said, no wonder the WT has emitted new light on Joel and relegated it to the ancient past. They reluctantly pried open the lid on the sealed box of Jehovah's mysteries and peered into the darkness of the abyss of oblivion and quickly slammed the lid shut.
 
MickHewitt said:
The tower have changed the wording many times I think in order to confuse our searches?
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Remember the loving and most deserving gesture of the sister who anointed the feet of Christ then dried them with her hair...? Then a nasty smell interupted the moment 'Why was this not sold and given to the poor?' That was the voice and attitude of Judas the simili of today's governing body at Bethel!
 
MickHewitt said:
Remember the loving and most deserving gesture of the sister who anointed the feet of Christ then dried them with her hair...? Then a nasty smell interupted the moment 'Why was this not sold and given to the poor?' That was the voice and attitude of Judas the simili of today's governing body at Bethel!
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Nasty smell. LOL. I read that and was like "I don't remember anyone farting in the Bible.
 
StopTheInsanity said:
Nasty smell. LOL. I read that and was like "I don't remember anyone farting in the Bible.
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Christ's patience with knowing from earliest day's that Judas was the one who would fulfill prophetic betrayal. Christ could read the heart....Take Nathanael for intance. His patience with Bethel's elite must demand the same tolerance. Especially watching those weeds choking the ground over these years. Not long till harvest!
 
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